This article has generated a lot of testimonials from people who have been associated with Waldorf schools. Here are a few of them:
crunchycat
26 May 2012 10:58PM
Saturday, May 26, 2012
Thursday, May 24, 2012
Parent Lied to by Waldorf
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group/2\
40
Poster 1:
Hello again everyone,
I'm not sure how or where to begin. I tried to start from the beginning but it
felt stilted and I felt disconnected from what I was writing. I guess that's how
I've been dealing with it all these years, by disconnecting and not allowing
myself to feel what was happening. I was sucked into the whole Steiner thing
because I deeply desired community, and I had never really fitted into the
conventional frameworks, so I was so relieved to discover these hippy dippy
folks who looked and sounded just like me. When it all fell apart I totally took
the blame on board and thought that it was me, my son, and our social
difficulties. Now after reading this thread (sorry but I do not have the time
right now to go back and read the other whole thread) I'm scared because it
looks like I might have to start ripping the scabs off that old pain, for both
me and my son to heal. I have so many regrets about what happened to my son as a
result of my blindness, I so badly wanted to fit somewhere. So I have mixed
feelings about having discovered this thread. It's so good to know I'm not
alone, it's scary to start to look at it all again and face the fact that maybe
it wasn't all my fault, you would think I would be relieved about that wouldn't
you but actually I realised that I am frightened to put our story up here. What
if...... gulp someone reads it and recognises who I am. I've moved half a world
or more away from that community but I still want them to think well of me!!!!!
How nuts is that.
Oh well, gotta go make dinner for the lucky younger ones for whom a
Steiner/Waldorf education is NEVER going to happen.
Oh does anyone else think it curious that they are Steiner schools in Europe but
Waldorf in the USA?
Poster 2:
Is it your fault if you were led to believe one thing and then it turns out that
you were lied to? I don't think so. Everything in WS is crafted in such away
that unless you have a problem, you may never know what is really going on
behind the scenes. Which doesn't make anyone who has broken away a bad person,
how are you supposed to know? We wanted to do what we thought was "best" for our
children. Unfortunately Anthroposophy doesn't encourage doing what's best for
the individual child who doesn't fit into their molds like they should.
You should know you didn't do anything wrong. They may want you to think that
you did something wrong but your children come 1st. It takes courage to break
away and you should be proud of yourself.
Parent's Eyes Opened by Critical Reviews
Here's another story from the same thread started by "Beansavi" - a young
Waldorf teacher who, along with her child, was abused by Waldorf. I love the
little recommendation at the end of this one:
"This thread has been a fascinating read. Bean, I have shed tears from your
heart wrenching posts. Your councilor's words were spot on -- so many times I
swallow my outrage when something seems off because I fear humiliation that I
read the situation wrong or am overeacting. After reading your story -- I will
feel this way no more.
We were on the brink of joining the Waldorf community here and thankfully I had
an interaction with someone that pushed all my buttons and sent me running for
the exit. I was seeing a chiropractor who is ensconced in the local Waldorf
scene -- both kids attend, she's on all the committees, totally totes the pary
line, and preys upon her clients with children to join. She's a Waldofian
Witness! Her practice is run out of her home and some of her kids' "plant
stained toys from Germany" (love that whichever one of you said that!) are in
the office for patients' kids to play with as they wait. My dd, 3 at the time
and deeply into the Cinderella, Snow White, and all things pink and Disney
Princess, played happily with the Waldorf Toys.
At the end of one visit, the chiro made small talk with my dd as I whipped out
the checkbook. Inn her beautiful little girl voice, I heard my dd innocently ask
the chiro, "Do you got Cinderella?" I have no idea if she meant a doll or the
movie -- or just a plant stained wooden toy that was vaguely princess-like. The
chiro then responded to my child in the smuggest tone possible, "Oh no, the
children who live here do not watch TV." I could tell she was saying this as
much to my dd as she was to me. Writing these words, it might not seem like much
of an affront -- but it was the superior tone and the "Ah Ha!! Caught you! You
plastic-owning, TV watching wolves in plant dyed biodynamic sheep's clothing!
You are inferior!" I so wanted to say something, but just shrugged it off,
gathered up dd, and left. I now wish I hadn't bitten my tongue.
This women and her smug superiority became the face of the local Waldorf
community for me and we thankfully avoided going any further along in the
process of enrolling dd. She called and emailed a few times about both making
another appointment and why weren't we following up at the school? I never
responded. Like you, Bean, I saw her at the natural foods store, but walked in
the other direction.
Bean and other parents, you should really write a book or have a website with
your stories. That way, when someone googles Waldorf, your stories will come up
in their search."
Waldorf teacher who, along with her child, was abused by Waldorf. I love the
little recommendation at the end of this one:
"This thread has been a fascinating read. Bean, I have shed tears from your
heart wrenching posts. Your councilor's words were spot on -- so many times I
swallow my outrage when something seems off because I fear humiliation that I
read the situation wrong or am overeacting. After reading your story -- I will
feel this way no more.
We were on the brink of joining the Waldorf community here and thankfully I had
an interaction with someone that pushed all my buttons and sent me running for
the exit. I was seeing a chiropractor who is ensconced in the local Waldorf
scene -- both kids attend, she's on all the committees, totally totes the pary
line, and preys upon her clients with children to join. She's a Waldofian
Witness! Her practice is run out of her home and some of her kids' "plant
stained toys from Germany" (love that whichever one of you said that!) are in
the office for patients' kids to play with as they wait. My dd, 3 at the time
and deeply into the Cinderella, Snow White, and all things pink and Disney
Princess, played happily with the Waldorf Toys.
At the end of one visit, the chiro made small talk with my dd as I whipped out
the checkbook. Inn her beautiful little girl voice, I heard my dd innocently ask
the chiro, "Do you got Cinderella?" I have no idea if she meant a doll or the
movie -- or just a plant stained wooden toy that was vaguely princess-like. The
chiro then responded to my child in the smuggest tone possible, "Oh no, the
children who live here do not watch TV." I could tell she was saying this as
much to my dd as she was to me. Writing these words, it might not seem like much
of an affront -- but it was the superior tone and the "Ah Ha!! Caught you! You
plastic-owning, TV watching wolves in plant dyed biodynamic sheep's clothing!
You are inferior!" I so wanted to say something, but just shrugged it off,
gathered up dd, and left. I now wish I hadn't bitten my tongue.
This women and her smug superiority became the face of the local Waldorf
community for me and we thankfully avoided going any further along in the
process of enrolling dd. She called and emailed a few times about both making
another appointment and why weren't we following up at the school? I never
responded. Like you, Bean, I saw her at the natural foods store, but walked in
the other direction.
Bean and other parents, you should really write a book or have a website with
your stories. That way, when someone googles Waldorf, your stories will come up
in their search."
Leaving Waldorf - Parent Support
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group/1\
60
One poster:
Hello,
Thanks for this thread-I really need it right at this moment, my hsb. and I are
making the decision at this moment to leave our WS. This is so difficult, and
brought about by many, many concerns on behalf of our child. I am really hoping
to share with others whose children have transitioned to other schools, while in
the grades. I feel almost like we are surrounded by a fog that is gradually
beginning to lift after many years, yet I am so apprehensive. I am worried for
my child-we haven't discussed this change yet, as our decision has been
evolving, and I am worried that we will lose our community of friends, as those
leaving are generally portrayed as problematic. I can't believe we are in the
middle of this...sigh.
Second poster:
HI ______, you aren't alone. It can be difficult and worrisome but I think it
will get easier once you've decided to leave. My dd was angry 2 weeks ago when
we told her. Now she's getting excited about the change. We went past the public
school she will be attending and she was shouting "There's my new school,
There's my new school." I think she's know something isn't right for a while
with WS. So it's sort of a relief to not go back.
First poster:
Thanks for the support. Can I ask how you explained your decision to your
daughter? Our grown up concerns obviously are for us alone-all my daughter will
see is the loss of her friends of several years, and change is difficult for
her. On the other hand, perhaps I should be looking for the strengths and
resiliency that she has, rather than focus on the anxiety of the situation? Any
thoughts are helpful to me!
Second poster:
I guess it helped that my daughter has asked to go to public school for a while.
My dh, teaches in the school disctrict we are sending her. We also know at least
one other Waldorf family who sent their children for Kindergarten only at
Waldorf and is now at the same school where dd is going. My dd also knows a boy
in a grade ahead of her because of my dh's business. Plus being a teacher in the
school district we know lots of teacher's and administrator's. So we just told
her that she was going to public school because we were not happy with the
teacher that was selected to teach the class. We would find tutors to continue
her german and violin lessons. I think I may have told her something like, to be
a good parent sometimes means making big decisions to protect her interests and
remove her from situations which I see are harmful. We pointed out that she was
behind in math and that she would need to be tutored over the summer. If Waldorf
education was the best we wouldn't have these concerns. So she was pretty happy
because we were going to let her take violin. Any other questions about friends
I answered we shall see what happens. She asked about birthday parties, etc...
Since it was a year ahead of time we told her we couldn't answer things like
that, right now. My daughter never thinks in the here and now. So the transition
went easily. I never really let myself get really close to anyone in the class,
so it's not like I really felt she had strong ties to the children. The women I
talk to have either younger or older children and completely understand what the
class has gone through. They would have taken their kids out too. So she will
continue to have relationships with Waldorf children but just not the
dysfunction that went on with her class.
It also helps that many of my good friends live out of the state. So she sees
that my own friendships aren't limited to the Waldorf community. Plus with my
dh's business we have friends we only see once a year when we travel for shows.
So to me, a friendship is not limited to people you see on a daily basis. She
was also on the bullying end of the totem pole and I'm sure it's a relief to not
be going back to that. I hope this helps you and that it is understandable. I
was interupted by my littlest too many times to think straight.
Third poster:
I am glad you found us. I agree that focusing on your child's strengths is a
good place to start. Without trying to sound tacky, I felt my leaving the
Waldorf was very similar to leaving a cult. I was shunned and lost everything.
I was literally in a daze and humiliated. Maybe those feelings are stronger than
what you are going thru, but in any event, it helps to know how others dealt.
I cannot state strongly enough that my son blossomed after leaving Waldorf.
Quite frankly, he never looked back. At 12 years old he still talks about how
unhappy he was there, even when he looked like he was having fun.
60
One poster:
Hello,
Thanks for this thread-I really need it right at this moment, my hsb. and I are
making the decision at this moment to leave our WS. This is so difficult, and
brought about by many, many concerns on behalf of our child. I am really hoping
to share with others whose children have transitioned to other schools, while in
the grades. I feel almost like we are surrounded by a fog that is gradually
beginning to lift after many years, yet I am so apprehensive. I am worried for
my child-we haven't discussed this change yet, as our decision has been
evolving, and I am worried that we will lose our community of friends, as those
leaving are generally portrayed as problematic. I can't believe we are in the
middle of this...sigh.
Second poster:
HI ______, you aren't alone. It can be difficult and worrisome but I think it
will get easier once you've decided to leave. My dd was angry 2 weeks ago when
we told her. Now she's getting excited about the change. We went past the public
school she will be attending and she was shouting "There's my new school,
There's my new school." I think she's know something isn't right for a while
with WS. So it's sort of a relief to not go back.
First poster:
Thanks for the support. Can I ask how you explained your decision to your
daughter? Our grown up concerns obviously are for us alone-all my daughter will
see is the loss of her friends of several years, and change is difficult for
her. On the other hand, perhaps I should be looking for the strengths and
resiliency that she has, rather than focus on the anxiety of the situation? Any
thoughts are helpful to me!
Second poster:
I guess it helped that my daughter has asked to go to public school for a while.
My dh, teaches in the school disctrict we are sending her. We also know at least
one other Waldorf family who sent their children for Kindergarten only at
Waldorf and is now at the same school where dd is going. My dd also knows a boy
in a grade ahead of her because of my dh's business. Plus being a teacher in the
school district we know lots of teacher's and administrator's. So we just told
her that she was going to public school because we were not happy with the
teacher that was selected to teach the class. We would find tutors to continue
her german and violin lessons. I think I may have told her something like, to be
a good parent sometimes means making big decisions to protect her interests and
remove her from situations which I see are harmful. We pointed out that she was
behind in math and that she would need to be tutored over the summer. If Waldorf
education was the best we wouldn't have these concerns. So she was pretty happy
because we were going to let her take violin. Any other questions about friends
I answered we shall see what happens. She asked about birthday parties, etc...
Since it was a year ahead of time we told her we couldn't answer things like
that, right now. My daughter never thinks in the here and now. So the transition
went easily. I never really let myself get really close to anyone in the class,
so it's not like I really felt she had strong ties to the children. The women I
talk to have either younger or older children and completely understand what the
class has gone through. They would have taken their kids out too. So she will
continue to have relationships with Waldorf children but just not the
dysfunction that went on with her class.
It also helps that many of my good friends live out of the state. So she sees
that my own friendships aren't limited to the Waldorf community. Plus with my
dh's business we have friends we only see once a year when we travel for shows.
So to me, a friendship is not limited to people you see on a daily basis. She
was also on the bullying end of the totem pole and I'm sure it's a relief to not
be going back to that. I hope this helps you and that it is understandable. I
was interupted by my littlest too many times to think straight.
Third poster:
I am glad you found us. I agree that focusing on your child's strengths is a
good place to start. Without trying to sound tacky, I felt my leaving the
Waldorf was very similar to leaving a cult. I was shunned and lost everything.
I was literally in a daze and humiliated. Maybe those feelings are stronger than
what you are going thru, but in any event, it helps to know how others dealt.
I cannot state strongly enough that my son blossomed after leaving Waldorf.
Quite frankly, he never looked back. At 12 years old he still talks about how
unhappy he was there, even when he looked like he was having fun.
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I thought the Steiner theories would interest me, thirty years ago when my kids were little. I didn't read a few exerpts. I read his books on education, I read the training materials for his teachers, and I listened to contemporaries who sent their kids to the schools. You may have had an excellent subjective experience with the schools- that does nothing to change or moderate my opinion of his idiotic, uninformed, and downright wrong theories about children, life, the universe, and how everything works. You might as well induct them into the New Order of the Golden Dawn, or Scientology, or the maunderings of Swedenborg.
If anyone has any doubts about anthroposphy in the classroom, read the teacher training reading list and course content...... Jeevan Vasagar certainly should have:
http://ukanthroposophy.wordpress.com/plymreadinglists/
http://www.waldorftraining.org.uk/courses.html
School isn't a place where karma, past lives and consulting with angels should play any part in making judgements or decision about children, let alone their education. If Steiner's work wasn't referred to so comprehensively in all areas of these schools, from the shape of the typeface to the colours on the walls, not to mention the content of the curriculum, it would be less alarming.
I understand that immersion into Steiner's beliefs is a staged process, and teachers are exposed to his more new age beliefs before gradually invited to study his more unusual creeds. It's more like a path of initiation than an education system. "Some are caught so it's worth the feeders who slip by" was how someone put it.
Within school communities, angels, astral bodies and karma are "normalised". While I don't think for a moment that the schools are full of racist bigots, to normalise connections between skin colour, eye colour and spiritual advancement can never be far away, however gentle and spiritual the sentiment. The schools are quite open about classifying the children by medieval temperament, which includes their body shape, pallor and physiognomy, and use these as tools to help in their "child study" sessions. In my view this is dangerous, anti-theraputic, anti scientific, anti-intellectual and luminously wrong.
A sentence like this:"A reductionist biology which states or implies that the human body is a machine … is not one which nourishes the adolescent's deepest concerns. The current theories are just that – theories. They have not been in existence long and though presented as 'truth' they will inevitably change" should be enough to exclude the Steiner schools from every form of state help, I don't want my tax money to pay this. Thanks.
PS: Actually the bit I about changing theories is very interesting, it shows clearly how they just don't get the essence of the scientific method. Of course theories will change in time: In science a theory is valid untill somebody "falsifies" it with a repeatable experiment, and proposes a new one, that will then stay valid until somebody else will falsify it. Mind you, some theories are pretty hard to falsify...
There is no absolute truth, it is not religion.
JavaJive
But I cannot send my kids to a school that demeans science - not the technology, but the process - as I have discovered in my life that the understanding of the natural world offered by science is one of the most beautiful of human achievements. I include Darwin and Einstein as part of this endless human project.
If you read Steiner's book the Kingdom of Childhood, he dismisses General Relatively with what I took to be a strong done of anti-semitism. Even with that issue aside, I have studied Relatively and its it one of the wonders of the human world - alongside the greatest art and literature.
Perhaps one day the Steiner movement will start to think for itself and modernise, not normalise, but incorporate the best of human values with the best and highest of all human achievement.
The you would have a real human force to reckon with. In hope... Dr Ben Lane (ex plain theoretical physicist now environmental technologist).
The suggestion that no kid who had a Steiner education didn't have a difficult life subsequently is fatuous and ridiculous.
You are quite obviously an idiot.
The problem I saw was that, once a child hits the 'classes' (age 6 and a half-7) the esoteric aspects of the education become too much and undermine a perfectly lovely way of teaching. i.e. Steiner schools are non-denominational, but really... they are based on Anthroposophy, which is the science of man from an esoteric point of view. The problem is that they wouldn't admit it. As an insider in the school, I once heard a senior teacher admit that 'we can't tell the parents that the education is based on Esoteric Christianity'. So the main issue for me was that they weren't being honest. This deceit was my main reason for taking my children out.
However recently I talked to someone else who went to the Forest Row school who said that left handed children were made to write with their right hand while holding a crystal in their left. That struck me as ante-diluvian, a realthrowback to Steiner education's 1920s roots, if true.
Has anyone else encountered this? If so I couldn't send my child to such a place