Parent Lied to by Waldorf

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group/2\
40

Poster 1:
Hello again everyone,

I'm not sure how or where to begin. I tried to start from the beginning but it
felt stilted and I felt disconnected from what I was writing. I guess that's how
I've been dealing with it all these years, by disconnecting and not allowing
myself to feel what was happening. I was sucked into the whole Steiner thing
because I deeply desired community, and I had never really fitted into the
conventional frameworks, so I was so relieved to discover these hippy dippy
folks who looked and sounded just like me. When it all fell apart I totally took
the blame on board and thought that it was me, my son, and our social
difficulties. Now after reading this thread (sorry but I do not have the time
right now to go back and read the other whole thread) I'm scared because it
looks like I might have to start ripping the scabs off that old pain, for both
me and my son to heal. I have so many regrets about what happened to my son as a
result of my blindness, I so badly wanted to fit somewhere. So I have mixed
feelings about having discovered this thread. It's so good to know I'm not
alone, it's scary to start to look at it all again and face the fact that maybe
it wasn't all my fault, you would think I would be relieved about that wouldn't
you but actually I realised that I am frightened to put our story up here. What
if...... gulp someone reads it and recognises who I am. I've moved half a world
or more away from that community but I still want them to think well of me!!!!!
How nuts is that.

Oh well, gotta go make dinner for the lucky younger ones for whom a
Steiner/Waldorf education is NEVER going to happen.

Oh does anyone else think it curious that they are Steiner schools in Europe but
Waldorf in the USA?

Poster 2:
Is it your fault if you were led to believe one thing and then it turns out that
you were lied to? I don't think so. Everything in WS is crafted in such away
that unless you have a problem, you may never know what is really going on
behind the scenes. Which doesn't make anyone who has broken away a bad person,
how are you supposed to know? We wanted to do what we thought was "best" for our
children. Unfortunately Anthroposophy doesn't encourage doing what's best for
the individual child who doesn't fit into their molds like they should.
You should know you didn't do anything wrong. They may want you to think that
you did something wrong but your children come 1st. It takes courage to break
away and you should be proud of yourself.

Parent's Eyes Opened by Critical Reviews

Here's another story from the same thread started by "Beansavi" - a young
Waldorf teacher who, along with her child, was abused by Waldorf. I love the
little recommendation at the end of this one:

"This thread has been a fascinating read. Bean, I have shed tears from your
heart wrenching posts. Your councilor's words were spot on -- so many times I
swallow my outrage when something seems off because I fear humiliation that I
read the situation wrong or am overeacting. After reading your story -- I will
feel this way no more.

We were on the brink of joining the Waldorf community here and thankfully I had
an interaction with someone that pushed all my buttons and sent me running for
the exit. I was seeing a chiropractor who is ensconced in the local Waldorf
scene -- both kids attend, she's on all the committees, totally totes the pary
line, and preys upon her clients with children to join. She's a Waldofian
Witness! Her practice is run out of her home and some of her kids' "plant
stained toys from Germany" (love that whichever one of you said that!) are in
the office for patients' kids to play with as they wait. My dd, 3 at the time
and deeply into the Cinderella, Snow White, and all things pink and Disney
Princess, played happily with the Waldorf Toys.

At the end of one visit, the chiro made small talk with my dd as I whipped out
the checkbook. Inn her beautiful little girl voice, I heard my dd innocently ask
the chiro, "Do you got Cinderella?" I have no idea if she meant a doll or the
movie -- or just a plant stained wooden toy that was vaguely princess-like. The
chiro then responded to my child in the smuggest tone possible, "Oh no, the
children who live here do not watch TV." I could tell she was saying this as
much to my dd as she was to me. Writing these words, it might not seem like much
of an affront -- but it was the superior tone and the "Ah Ha!! Caught you! You
plastic-owning, TV watching wolves in plant dyed biodynamic sheep's clothing!
You are inferior!" I so wanted to say something, but just shrugged it off,
gathered up dd, and left. I now wish I hadn't bitten my tongue.

This women and her smug superiority became the face of the local Waldorf
community for me and we thankfully avoided going any further along in the
process of enrolling dd. She called and emailed a few times about both making
another appointment and why weren't we following up at the school? I never
responded. Like you, Bean, I saw her at the natural foods store, but walked in
the other direction.

Bean and other parents, you should really write a book or have a website with
your stories. That way, when someone googles Waldorf, your stories will come up
in their search."

Parents Warn Prospective Parent

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/parenting/1232574-Any-steiner-school-experiences/All\
OnOnePage

Original poster: "I went to a toddler group at our local steiner school today
and it was just lovely. There was such a calm atmosphere and my daughter adored
it. We've been thinking about schools for a while now and I wondered if anyone
had any good (or bad) experiences of a steiner education, in preschool, primary
and secondary levels. Many thanks in advance."

One poster: "I have a young nephew who attends a Steiner school. I have also
attended several of the school's fundraising events, and all I can say is that
my impression is not good. The kids are allowed to run wild, with no basic
manners or social skills in evidence. The parents all float around wearing their
hand-knitted-in-Peru ponchos, totally ignoring their kids' inappropriate
behaviour. The kids appear to be dab-hands at climbing trees, building bonfires
etc, but there's no great evidence of anything more academic than that. They
have to wear clothes made entirely of natural fibres, and are not allowed TV or
computer games, and "ordinary" kids' toys are frowned upon. However the thing
that most shocked me was that the teachers (who get called by their first names)
actually visit the kids' homes to inspect their bedrooms, and ensure there is
nothing "inappropriate".
My DS attends the local state school, and he is thriving under the routine and
discipline, and his literacy and numeracy are very good. IMHO children need a
bit of well-structured discipline. It pays dividends in the long run, and better
equips them for the real world, where you can't just wander off to look for
ladybirds whenever you fancy."

Another poster: "I think if you want a Steiner school which would not discourage
reading before the age of 7, you have to find a "poor" Steiner school, if you
see what I mean... one in which the teachers are not too really doing the
Steiner thing 100%... I do know of parents who have been called in for a talk
when it became clear in the Steiner nursery that their under 4s were allowed to
paint at home. This was considered by Steiner to be too early to be allowed to
use a paint brush and those nursery teachers were conscientious Steiner teachers
and put some pressure on the parents to stop painting at home.
I would also recommend you to read as widely as you can regarding anthroposophy
before sending your child to a Steiner school - there are an awful lot of books
which Steiner wrote himself. Then you have to look at your own school and try to
get an impression of how they implement Steiner´s ideas. This is not so easy, I
think, as a parent."

In the end:

Original Poster: I just wanted to thank you all for your posts! I've had some
lovely PMs too from people who were a bit worried about airing their views in
public - so thank you for those too!

To be honest I'm intrigued! The school seems lovely, the literature looks good,
the staff seem nice, the toddler group continues to be nice and the kids seem
happy...but there are so many people with bad experiences of Steiner it does
worry me. And there doesn't seem to be any middle ground - people have either
had horrific or amazing experiences.

So I'm left confused...albeit more informed! Thanks again"

Waldorf Teacher Trainee Changes Mind

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group/1\
40

"My son attends a newly formed school (one year old) in a small community. I am
an aide in the classroom 1 day/week. I am also pursuing a degree in (regular)
education, and obviously I see firsthand the many constrasts between Waldorf and
public school practices. I have questioned some aspects of Waldorf from the
beginning. And others I fully appreciate and embrace. I have seen changes in my
son that are wonderful and I would not change for the world. As others have
said, there are some truly beautiful and dynamic things about the Waldorf
philosophy, ones that I intend to bring with me to the public school classroom.
However...there is an ugly side and I have defiinitely noticed the disfunction
and the fact that for those of us who see it, there is almost nowhere to go with
our concerns. The community is way too defensive and overprotective. When I
brought ANY questions (not complaints, just observations, and wanting
clarifications) about the educational practices of Waldorf to the attention of
our teacher, she completely ignored me and changed the subject!

For one example, being a minor in special education, I have questions about
dyslexia and other learning disabilities...are Waldorf teachers trained to see
the symptoms and signs of these problems? If so, how are they dealt with? Are
the children helped or are they asked to find another school that can better
handle their differences that make them unique from the other learners (in other
words, kicked out!)?

I attended a Waldorf seminar in which one of the presenters described the
problems her son had had in a Waldorf school with reading and writing, she
described her son as having nearly every classic symptom of dyslexia (though she
refused to label it as such). He was very frustrated in school because the
Waldorf way does not support kids with such issues. He got no help there, so she
pulled him out and tried homeschooling, she tried nearly everything she could
think of to help him and eventually gave up and resigned herself to the fact
that her son would never really be able to truly write or spell (and a lesser
ability to read). I just couldn't help wondering why did she not seek more
conventional help for her son so that he could overcome his disability and be
able to read and write? And how does Waldorf address this? It seems to me that
it is totally ignored. If so, how many kids slip through the cracks?

Additionally, one of the other major issues I have so far had involve the lead
teacher and personality conflicts. For one, she could at times be very degrading
to the children (telling them to "quit your crying!", etc). I think I was the
only one to question her less than professional handling of discipline and other
such issues. Then came the issue of favoritism. Because I was the one that was
always bringing up things she didn't want to hear, I was not her favorite aide,
while another aide was. This resulted in ridiculous and blatent acts of
favoritism. Once again, I was shocked by the lack of professionalism. Although I
did bring this issue to the teacher (she denied it all and said I was seeing it
all wrong), I did not take it further because she will, thankfully, not be
returning next year (her own choice). The favoritism that I saw seems to go
along with things others have mentioned here about the illusion of community,
and yet it is actually a limited community and just by saying the wrong thing,
you can find yourself on the wrong side of community. Which I find to be
extremely hypocritical and going against everything that Waldorf is supposed to
be about.

Lastly, I just wanted to say thank you to you all for helping me make a
decision. I have been until now tossing around the idea of pursuing
certification in Waldorf education once I have finished my current degree, and
then teaching at my son's school. My previous hesitation is that Waldorf is so
limited and so rigid. There is such a lack of room for diverse thinking (despite
the illusion otherwise). I personally want to teach to a more diverse population
than what is typically found at a Waldorf school. Secondly, I want more freedom
to teach what I want to teach and to teach in a way that recognizes the
diversity of the individual learner--which ironically, despite NCLB and
standarized testing, I think I will actually find easier to do in a public
school rather than a Waldorf school. Still, as a matter of convienience and the
needs of the school, I hadn't ruled out being a Waldorf teacher. Now, after
reading this thread, my mind is made up. I will not be going in that direction.

I want to also add that I know that these things also happen in public schools,
I am not naive enough to think that they don't. However, I would like to think
that there are more safeguards set up to help and protect parents and students
there than in a small community/private school setting, especially one in which
you are burned at the stake for even suggesting that there could be any faults
in the system."

Waldorf Teacher and Her Child Abused

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/368640/a-safe-healthy-haven-waldorf-questio\
ners-concerns-thread

Okay, here is part of my story. I will add more later, when I feel up to it.
I'm sure you all can understand the draining qualities of recounting abusive
experiences. Again, I am sharing here to encourage the bravery of others, and to
establish a safe place to talk and get support for what we have each been
through.

Please also reference posts numbers 164-166 later in this thread.

When my child was one year old, I heard about Waldorf Education from a friend.
Since I was in graduate school for Elementary Education, I was naturally
intrigued. I was drawn by the normal influences: the color, the softness, the
natural toys, the stories, the slow pace of the learning. It was pretty much the
opposite of what I was being taught in college.

I attended initial meetings for founding a school in my area (probably five
people at most) and did a lot of the grunt work to get the school going,
including using our truck to haul desks and blackboards from another school an
hour away.

Naturally, the people I was spending so much time with became my new community,
now that I was a new mother. My friends that still had no children and I grew
apart, and I let that happen. The common thread with my new friends was the
Waldorf school, and Waldorf Ed. Unfortunately, I didn't attempt to find any
other community. I felt like those I was with were the best of the best, and we
really knew what was best for our kids, and for kids in general. We were also
"mentored" by other schools and teachers, and so their opinion was that Waldorf
was superior, and they stated constantly how and why. Not good.

The Kindergartens became established, and one grade. After spending years to
help found the school, joining the local Anthroposophical study group, I became
a substitute, then Kindergarten Assistant, then French teacher. I eventually I
became a grades teacher at the school. They sent me, all expenses paid, to
Rudolf Steiner College where I studied for thirteen hours a day, five days a
week, in the summer.

After completing my foundation year of studies, my son was four and in
Kindergarten. Another child started putting his hands down the kids' pants and
grabbing them in front and in back. It took three meetings with the teacher to
get her to do anything. My son was switched by the teachers into another class,
and lost all of the friends he had ever known. The teachers said to me, very
rudely, that there was no switching him back. Period. Then they refused to
consider him for first grade although he met the age limit. He began a blinking
habit, and pooping in his pants "on accident".

No one at the school called Social Services, which is the law, despite my many
conversations about my concerns. I was told by the faculty chair that she
thought the school had to call S.S. and that a parent (like me) could not. I
believed her.

My son started acting out in class. He bit a child because he said the other
kids were too "baby" and messed up his inventions made in class. (He should have
been in first grade). He also said the teacher wasn't even looking most of the
time. Other kids got injured during playtime because the teachers were around
the corner, behind a bush, talking and not watching the kids. Other parents
complained. I was one. I pulled my child out of the school.

No other teachers ever did anything in general to hold others to the carpet. It
all fell on me, and I was overly stressed at that point because of everyone
else's habit of ignoring elephants under the carpet.

Because I was a teacher there, too, I was "punished" (the term the faculty
chose). I was required to write a six page apology letter to the Kindergarten
teachers, and it was closely edited and reworded by the new faculty chair (they
switched mid-crisis since the old faculty chair they considered to be too "on my
side") which took nearly the entire school year! I was soooo exhausted. People
also spoke to me regularly as if I was a child who was behaving badly-and I
wouldn't even speak to my own child in such an abusive tone as they were using!

I was required to write the Anthroposophical doctor they required me to see for
my son. In the letter I was to tell him I should not have told him about the
very reasons I was there to see him and why my son was having a problem, because
I could have ruined the Kindergarten teacher's career! It was assumed that I
told him about our situation because I was trying to win something at the
school, like I am a bad person, or mean with anger issues. I have since come to
understand that people see each other with their "own eyes" and that they saw me
in the way they, themselves, lived. They could not see outside of that.

I am a good, caring person and my concern was for my child-of course! It seems
silly to even have to say that, but they were so dysfunctional IMO that it can
mess with your head when you are feeling low for a moment.

I was also told by the school that my child could not come back the next year
for first grade and rejoin his lifelong friends with a new teacher.

My son's Kindergarten teacher had beers every Thursday night with the Board of
Trustees Chair (Head). The teacher admitted this in a fit of anger at a faculty
meeting. The BOT Chair , after a special meeting on "the crisis" asked her in
front of everyone if she still wanted to go to "Joe's" and have a beer since it
was Thursday. She said "Yeah". Nobodyelse responded! I brought it up the next
day and the new faculty chair said she would "think about it" noncomittally.
WTH? How unprofessional (and illegal with the EEOC) is that?

The BOT Head and this KG teacher discussed confidential things they should not
have. No one questioned this. This type of unprofessional behavior was
commonplace and anyone who spoke out was punished.

The former faculty chair told me that one parent was taken off of every
committee and her children threatened to be kicked out, if she "said one more
thing".

Additionally, the first faculty chair told me to look in the files to see if the
teacher had documented my son's behavior (since it was suddenly so "negative").
There was nothing. The faculty chair got the files out herself. Later, I was
told that because I looked in the file cabinet, and was also a paorent as well
as teacher in the school, then I would have to be on probation since looking in
the files was unprofessional. I said the faculty chair suggested it and was
present. They switched faculty chairs a few weeks before this statement and the
new one said that what the old one did was irrelevant: I looked in the files and
she (the new faculty chair) didn't like it, so the punishment would remain or
I'd lose my job. I was so dumbfounded. It was like the twilight zone! Completely
twisted.

There is much more to this, but I need to pace myself. Bottom line, when I said
they were going too far by also punishing my son (not allowed to return), they
said they were considering that statement to be my resignation. When I said it
wasn't, they said they didn't care, they were still considering it a
resignation, and released a memo to the school and parent community saying I
quit due to family difficulties. They also held a meeting with the parents of my
class without me. They couldn't even say the words, "fired", which is what they
were doing. I was given one more paycheck, and then my family had no more
income, not even through the summer.

After all the exhaustion and abuse, I had to look for another job as well as
grieve and recover. I can't even believe I stayed through as much as I did, but
at the time I viewed it as fighting for the school and stubbornly refusing to be
bossed around. I lost the battle, but I feel like I won the war, because we are
soooo much happier and healthier now. The school will never be much with such
karma behind them. I still hear all the stories of the same behavior, and that
makes me feel like they have learned nothing.

Too bad. But I just don't care anymore, except to help others who feel abused.
It took me three years to even realize how abused I felt. I walked around
embarassed, with my head down. But no more. Those people are the ones who
embarassed themselves. Shame on them.

My family and I are great now, though we do have "flashbacks". We are working on
baby number three, and I teach homeschoolers and enjoy being a family woman.

Sorry this is a bit disjointed, but as you know, I feel spent after talking
about it all.

Waldorf Vindictive to Parents who Ask Questions

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group/4\
80

The vindictiveness that can be unleashed when one even questions the party line
is very worrisome to me. We are considering *not* sending our dd to high school
there- every time I asked a question at the meeting for 8th grade parents I was
met with dissembling worthy of the Catholic recusants in the Jacobean age. But I
am really worried that asking teachers to write recommendations will not be a
wise thing to do- and how to put this concern across to the new school we'd be
applying to?

My child has not learned one thing in two years there- grades seven and eight,
when they assure you (when you're in kindergarten heaven) that your child will
eventually embark on a rigorous curriculum. When I've complained that she's
bored they say she doesn't pay attention (yeah, no duh, because she's
B-O-R-E-D), and that she is already so "in her head" that she should focus more
on gym (though the gym teacher is SO awful and rude I would pull her out of
school on that principle alone). And if she's so bored, they say, why can't she
finish her work or put more effort into it? That's what she "needs to struggle
with." -sigh-

I can't get anyone to answer a straightforward question about the science
curriculum, for instance- my daughter misses textbooks (she was homeschooled
with Calvert, which was wonderful!) and loathes the block system. I asked if
there are science classes in "extra main," ie when there's no English block they
have a few periods per week in English, when there's no math block they have
extra math, etc. They answered that their kids get more science than public
schools (not true; I checked), and that since "math is the language of science,"
their math and history and art includes plenty of science. So that means the
math problem about the shadow and the building and the Pythagorean theorem,
that's enough science for a month? I'm an adult and I forget things from my
science classes earlier in the *semester.*

I know the stats they provide show that their kids do go to college, and most
are not doctors or lawyers or scientists. That's ok for my daughter; she's into
art anyway. But the lack of substance, and worse, the absence of a standard for
excellence and achievement (everything I've seen is mediocre or worse, even on
the high school level), has me very depressed. Especially since if my daughter
is going to be an artist or a writer, I want her to absorb enough information to
be a well-educated person, with a firm grounding in all the subjects she is
*not* drawn to.

And how to ask them to write a good recommendation so we can get the hell out?"

"Yes, I'm learning that where we live, saying your children are at the Waldorf
school is actually something to be embarrassed about, or to be followed by an
explanation that you're not really one of those people- we watch television and
believe in Evolution and the Scientific Method, and we don't talk in a singsongy
voice all day long. I meet people everywhere who've left the school for one
reason or another; many are reluctant to speak frankly about why they left.

People at the school, whether faculty or parents, seem to have so little contact
with the "outside" (the school's term, not mine!) that they have no clue. They
imagine they are envied and admired. Even C-students at the community college
have a low opinion of the Waldorf school!

My daughter's teacher is a god at this school- everyone talks about what a
wonderful class it is (no credit to us families!), so any complaint would fall
on deaf ears. Even other parents in the class get involved when they don't have
a complaint, so concerned are they that we - or others - are "troublemakers;"
I'm sick of that attitude and would rather she go to public school with its
out-on-paper protocols of accountability and privacy than remain here. She
refuses to attend the public school, however, so it's either a more expensive
private school or homeschooling for high school, which I never wanted to do.

I even consider leaving her where she is for social reasons- if they'll keep her
for high school after our "troublemaking-" except then I think of the PE
teacher, or what could be learned during the time wasted on Eurythmy..."

"She has visited our local school for a day, and the experience was so awful her
eye doctor, that afternoon for a regular visit, could not measure her eyes, they
were twitching so badly. That particular school is unfortunately known for
having pretty rough kids- the middle school girls' basketball team from that
school actually started punching our girls' team members during a game recently!
But more importantly, even at the middle school level when she visited, they
were doing work she had done years before as a homeschooler. Being behind is not
going to be a problem wherever she goes.

You make a good point about the public school bigotry at Waldorf schools. My
daughter does not like that either- in fact she was in tears one day last year
(gr 7) when she and another girl got into an argument about public vs Waldorf
schools! My daughter dared to point out that contrary to the belief that art is
better at Waldorf, in her opinion the art on display at county events from the
public schools is better than that from ours.

Also, if one more comment is made in my presence about "people from outside," or
"at the public schools," I will blow my stack. I do intend to say something if
it happens again. There is one parent in particular, a founder of the school
actually (the school is 35 or so years old), who does this at every meeting, in
every conversation, and I am sick of it. For one thing, we're all there for
whatever reason. For another, both my and my husband's PUBLIC high schools are
ALWAYS listed on WSJ's or US News/World Report's lists of best schools in the
country, or WSJ's "How to Get Into Harvard." So I just don't want to hear it. I
haven't seen a school that can touch my high school in any area, including
socially, and I do live in the world- the way the teachers speak as though they
are privy to some terrible dangers of "outside" is also getting on my nerves.

Speaking of socially, more than one friend has said they are unhappy with lots
of things at the school (ie even with tutoring their children cannot do basic
math), but they are so sure their kids will get beaten up at the public schools
they feel they have no choice (we are all in different districts, or we could
send them together!). They have ALSO said that as far as applying to any of the
other private schools here (as well as the grotesque expense), they are quite
sure their kids, knowing no math or writing skills, could not even get into
another school.

Our local Sylvan learning center joked with one friend of mine that she was very
early (grade four or five); "we don't usually see students from ----- until
tenth grade when they can't pass the PSAT!" : Meanwhile the school boasts that
they have a finalist or two every couple of years- this is proof their (tiny)
classes do comparably well?

PS- Has anyone read the study that's being flaunted all over the place about how
Waldorf students do after high school? Has anyone else noticed any elementary
statistics class gives enough info to render that study useless? Or that even if
their stats were reliable, the results are alarming rather than reassuring?

Steiner Waldorf Problems

http://www.dystalk.com/forum/general-advice-other/4659-steiner-waldorf-problems

Steiner Waldorf Problems

I found your site very useful; thanks. The help it has given us with dyslexia
and learning strategies is thoughtful, practical, and for us, invaluable.

I wasn't sure which forum to write in, as one of our children has dyslexia. My
main reason for posting is to comment on Steiner education, which is often seen
as a haven for those with dyslexia, or the not so academic because of it's so
called concentration on creativeness and craft.

Since leaving this ''community'' we've found out so much , the things the
school's PR take great trouble to cover up. Steiner Waldorf education isn't
really about giving children knowledge, arming them with a desire to question
and extend their flare for curiosity. It's about seeing them through their
''incarnation'', helping them with the ''karmic'' lessons they need in this
life, in order for them to reincarnate on a higher spiritual plane in the next.

Yes, it sounds bonkers, it is bonkers.

We thought the Steiner system would be creative, liberal and give scope for our
children's individual talents and characters; it was a disaster, rigid, boring,
copied restricted work, following frankly bizarre and dangerous beliefs. (It is
based on anthroposophy, the teachers often had no qualifications apart from
Steiner training, which is nearly all done with Steiner's work. The
educationalist David Mollet calls it brainwashing and indoctrination)

Consequently our children have taken much time and effort to catch up; dyslexia
isn't recognised except as an ''incarnation problem''. Everything is about
karma. Our youngest was encouraged to change from being left handed, and had to
do things right handed (left handedness is to do with a weakness in a past
life), children are classified by medieval ''temperaments''- melancholic,
phlegmatic etc, which, along with their race and roots, dictates how the teacher
treats them.

One of our children has had esteem problems because bullying was more or less
ignored (it is seen as karma).

After doing some research, we discovered that the same problems we had, happen
in Steiner Waldorf schools all over the world. Some of these people's
experiences can be read in the article section here.

www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles.html

http://sites.google.com/site/waldorfwatch/welcome

http://www.dystalk.com/forum/general-advice-other/4659-steiner-waldorf-problems

We withdrew our daughter from a Steiner school in class 5 ( year 6 )after her
class teacher labelled her a unwilling to cooperate. Through class 2/3 we
questioned her academic progress,we were told by her teacher and some parents
told us to trust the system and that she was doing well and was a lovely child.
A new teacher arrived in class 4 . She told us our child had multiple issues and
was terribley behaved. We know realise she has mild dyslexia and dyspraxia and
needs some specific teaching. The Steiner school did nothing but condemn our
child as the problem. They have totally betrayed our trust and loyalty.
 

Aftermath of Mumsnet Censorship

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/810386-Steiner-education/AllOnOnePage

*Can anyone suggest an appropriate forum in which I could talk to someone about
Steiner education? We have our concerns about it, but our children are still at
a Steiner school.
Thanks

**Unfortunately I don't think there are any online forums where open honest
debate about this is possible, as Steiner school supporters always turn up and
swamp any discussion between critics, and then it turns into an argument, and
then the posters get barred from the forum, or politely requested to stay off
that topic for fear of litigation.

If you search through old threads on here you will see some long and heated
debates - I know this isn't the same as being able to join in a discussion
yourself, but you may see the same issues you are experiencing being discussed
by others, which at least makes you aware that others have raised those issues
too...

You might also consider whether the fact that the Steiner supporters are so
quick and thorough in quelling open debate between those critical of them is in
itself a warning sign about their attitudes...

***Hi alloveragain. What the others say is true I'm afraid. I don't really go on
mumsnet any more, the "chilling effect" of not being able to discuss problems
about our children's education and what it has done to them is very
disheartening. I only saw this because someone told me.

There are websites which have articles about concerns, and various blogs too.
But forums where mothers try to compare notes, like this, are usually swamped by
specific supporters who report any negative stuff. They also threaten legal
action; the forums have no choice but to delete the negative posts, because they
are frightened of being prosecuted.

It is quite staggering that we aren't able to tell the truth of what happened
personally to our children, discuss the pseudo religion it is based on, or even
Steiner's work, and imo is the suppression of free speech.

If you use the contact another mumsnetter facility, you're more than welcome to
chat off line.

As amum says, your instincts and misgivings are the thing to go on. Those caught
up in it won't ever see any wrong.

**** Oh god...

(I am another with a horror story, but am also very wary of talking about in on
mn, which is...sad)

***** Another Steiner escapee here.
What NR39 said is so true - people do get 'caught up in it' and you will find it
nigh-on impossible to get a straight answer to a direct question.
To me, that speaks volumes.

****** Move on, move on, nothing to see here... oh dear I smell non-violent
communication, or as it has now become, a sort of insincere, passive-aggressive
cunning. Come on, storymama: instead of repeating jargon, try listening to what
these posters are saying. There ARE support groups for Steiner Waldorf parents
and ex-pupils but if anyone posted a link to one here, off this thread would go
like a gnome on a rocket.

The problem is not 'hurt' that needs to be 'cleaned up' but a profound,
intrinsic flaw in Steiner education. The flaw is called 'anthroposophy'.

lolapoppins I contacted you through mumsnet, do contact me if you'd like to I
understand it's hard to trust anyone re this issue! Hope you're OK and the
home-ed is going well.

******* I have taken enough crap off of pro Steiner people who refuse to see
what damage it can do to use up any head space worrying about things someone
posts on a forum! And anyway, I find it soooooo hard to take them seroiusly
because if they were true Steiner followers, they wouldn't even be on the
internet incase their children caught a glipse of Ara-whats-his-face devil bloke
talking to them through the screen grin

Unless they are the kind of Steiner parents who cover up their telly screens
with biege coloured silks! They always made me laugh the most. Even more so than
the ones who used to hide their microwaves.

If you lived in the little hippy haven that I do, you would hear the pro Stiener
bollocks being shouted from the rooftops, so I have far too much to of it to
listen to in real life wink

"actively not teaching children to read and write until the age of 7 because of
some loopy 'spiritual, teeth coming through, mumbo-jumbo' is a step too far"

What do you reckon they said was the reason they wanted to opt out of the EYFS
goals? I'd love to know what BS reasoning they came out with, they can't
possibly have told the loopy truth.

They activly discourage 'learning' anyway in my experience (and many I have
spoken to) even if a child shows and interrest in reading or writing before 7 it
is quashed. I was told my son had a black heart and would never reach his
potential because he had a massive bookshelf full of books in his room. You
would have thought that the Mr Men were demons from the depths of hell. As some
of the pro Steiner people on here will know, a proper Stiener child will not
have been exposed to print before 7 anyway, so they will not know what reading
is (or strip lighting. Or god forbid, a supermarket wink).

******** "having relationships based on clarity and respect"

Sorry, I wasn't going to respond to you but my DH almost passed out wheh he read
that, so I felt I had to before he did with a string of expletives.

There cannot be clarity and respect. How can there be when the 'teachers' see
themseleves as being the childrens spiritual guardians, or 'real parents' as
some put it. The childrens parents are not seen to be improtant. But, you should
know all that if you have looked into Steiner 'education' properly. You cannot
respect someone, when you hide your agenda from them for your own gains.

Oh, and it wasnt hearsay from my child. He actually shut down and didn't speak
for most of the time he was there. But I had nurmerous letters from the school,
stating 'worrying' things my son had done, such as asking why they had wooden
spades when plastic would be better as it would not rot (his soul damaged is by
the modern world apparently hmm), and I was even called to pick him up as he
dared to paint a fire engine instead of a wishy washy painting, I was told that
was a sign he was spiritually stunted - I had to take him home as he had ruined
the 'feeling' for the day. The last day he was there I took to hiding behind the
kindergarten and listening in, as well. I heard it all with my own ears - I have
never cried so much in my life.

I could publish the 60 or so letters we got from the school about 'black hearts'
and 'stunting spiritual growth' becasue he liked Miley Cyrus - it would be the
best selling comedy book ever.

Agh, good God, am wasting my Sunday afternoon arguing over this crap!

********* Thanks for the link Barking, no mention in there of the devil speaking
to children out of a computer screen or not being ready to read because they
have not incarnated fully into thier bodies. Just as I thought.

It is two years this week since ds started at the Steiner school, and it will be
two years next week that I first stated having doubts.

I am not as angry as I used to be, not now that finally, my little boy has got
over what he went through in the six months he was there. He will still mention
it from time to time (if only to take the piss grin) but the nightmares and bed
wetting have stopped at last.

I do read posts from pro Stiener people with a mixture of disgust and sorrow
though, as I do wonder if some of them are by parents who have been so
hoodwinked by the schools, or just so sucked into the community that they can't
see anything other than what they have been told. I have no fear of saying what
I think about Steiner 'education' anymore either, I can argue back to whatever
anyone throws at me, I know what my family experienced, and I know that it sadly
isn't unique. It almost cost me my marrige, my son and my sanity.

I am still being hounded where I live by these people, especially as the school
near to me has now closed and most of the families have chosen to home educate
(as I guess you would have to for a bit if you have a 9 year old that cannot
read, as did 5 or so families at the school) and have spread nasty gossip about
myself and ds at the home ed groups we used to attend. We live in a place where
the whole bake your own bread and only play with wooden toys thing appeals to
all the parents moving up from London with dreams of the good life, so we can't
win. Apparently, I am the loopy one!

If you had spoken to me two years ago, I would have defended my sons Steiner
school to the death. I had a whole summer previous to him joining of being
'welcomed' by the Steiner community, made to feel part of something wonderful.
Looking back, it was like being pulled into a cult.

********** What I have come to realise is that I didn't put my family through
anything, they did. I beat myself up about it for so long, I looked at my ds
being so unhappy and thought that I caused it. My mental health was affected
badly. Please don't blame yourself. I did for so long. When you choose a school
for your kids, you think you are doing the best you can for them.

I saw a great quote from am ex Steiner parent once, who was getting ripped into
on a forum for not having researched Steiner education better before enroling
her children. She came back with something like 'you would research a solicitor,
a car dealer, a dog breeder - you don't research the background of a school. You
go on the information in the prospectus, and from the information other parents
at the school give you. You don't expect a school to lie'.

*********** So sad. Just lost my lovely neighbours to the steiners. They have
moved to a very out of the way place where there is a very active
school/community; their DD, who just turned 7, was my DD's best friend. Funny
enough, when my D started reading at age 4, the little friend would spend hours
being read to by my DD; eventually, when the friend was 5, DD started teaching
her to read because she was fed up doing all the reading.grin Very subversive..
The mum struck me as something of a 'spiritual seeker' type of person, and maybe
this is what attracted her to steiner education. She is a very talented, trained
singer, who has sung with prominent classical ensembles, orchestra choruses,
etc., and there will be no outlet for that where they are going, but apparently
she is willing to toss it all overboard for the steiner thing. The dad has had
no contact with his family of origin since he left for college, probably 20
years ago.
I met a lot of their friends from the steiner school at barbeques and birthday
parties over the years, and I have to say, I found them all a bit lax in their
supervision of the children -- it seemed to me that the law of the jungle
prevailed when they all got together. My neighbour's child had what her mum
called a strong personality (I found her heavy going and bratty hmm a lot of the
time) and I think she was the dictator of the group she was in at the school.
They tried a montessori school with her when her little brother was born,
because it was closer and cheaper, but she couldn't deal with the structure, the
behaviour expectations, or the academic focus. So they took her out and went
back to the steiner place.

*********** I saw the deleted post. It was measured & kind to the poster
mentioned. There was a link to an Australian Rationalist Society article
expressing a complex analysis & interpretation of Steiner education in that
country, where public money is involved. Such analysis is to be expected in a
democracy.

I could see nothing libelous in it or anything that could connect mumsnet to its
views, any more than a link to someone's favourite song would be a thumbs up to
talent.

If we believe in freedom of information we should allow adults to read material
like this & make up their own minds, unless we believe them incapable. My brief
experience of mumsnet reassures me that's far from the case! People can't make
informed choices about something as serious as education when they are not
allowed to read differing opinions. When government funding for Steiner schools
may well be increased in the UK in the near future, this suppression of
information due to a real or perceived threat becomes a matter of public
concern.

Today Richard Dawkins spoke at the Libdem conference about the need to repeal
the UK's libel laws. Such a thing is overdue, as those following the Simon Singh
case know well and this is a link to a description of that case & is in no way
itself libelous!

It's clear from the Quackometer article that it isn't just science that's
effected: 'Free speech is reduced to a meaningless freedom as long as it does
not effect business interests, political ambitions and dogmatic beliefs.'

This is serious. And sadly not irrelevant to this thread.

'It is time for a change. It is time for us to be free from fear when voicing
our concerns.'