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Showing posts with label delayed learning. Show all posts
Showing posts with label delayed learning. Show all posts

Saturday, May 26, 2012

Waldorf School Testimonials

This article has generated a lot of testimonials from people who have been associated with Waldorf schools.  Here are a few of them:

crunchycat
26 May 2012 10:58PM


I do not think this means what you think it means.


I thought the Steiner theories would interest me, thirty years ago when my kids were little. I didn't read a few exerpts. I read his books on education, I read the training materials for his teachers, and I listened to contemporaries who sent their kids to the schools. You may have had an excellent subjective experience with the schools- that does nothing to change or moderate my opinion of his idiotic, uninformed, and downright wrong theories about children, life, the universe, and how everything works. You might as well induct them into the New Order of the Golden Dawn, or Scientology, or the maunderings of Swedenborg.

incudine
26 May 2012 9:41PM
I am a demonstrator at a farm museum where we were visited by a Steiner school once. I have never met such an obnoxious bunch of children in all my life and recommended to the management that they accept no further visits from said school. I should add that I am blacksmith and one time RAF pilot so well used to the more robust side of life but those children were something else.


cathyandfamily
26 May 2012 8:47PM
Our children went to a Steiner school until the penny dropped about the reasons why certain things were taught and done in a particular way; we whipped them out sharpish.....(and yes, attempts were made to change left handedness of one of our children, and as far as I know at this particular school I know two other left handed children who they have tried with recently too, so this is apparently still going on)
If anyone has any doubts about anthroposphy in the classroom, read the teacher training reading list and course content...... Jeevan Vasagar certainly should have:
http://ukanthroposophy.wordpress.com/plymreadinglists/
http://www.waldorftraining.org.uk/courses.html
School isn't a place where karma, past lives and consulting with angels should play any part in making judgements or decision about children, let alone their education. If Steiner's work  wasn't referred to so comprehensively in all areas of these schools, from the shape of the typeface to the colours on the walls, not to mention the content of the curriculum, it would be less alarming.
I understand that immersion into Steiner's beliefs is a staged process, and teachers are exposed to his more new age beliefs before gradually invited to study his more unusual creeds. It's more like a path of initiation than an education system. "Some are caught so it's worth the feeders who slip by" was how someone put it.
Within school communities,  angels, astral bodies and karma are "normalised". While I don't  think for a moment that the schools are full of racist bigots, to normalise connections between skin colour, eye colour and spiritual  advancement can never be far away, however gentle and spiritual the  sentiment. The schools are quite open about classifying the children  by medieval temperament,  which includes their body shape, pallor  and  physiognomy, and use these as tools  to help in their "child study"  sessions. In my view this is dangerous, anti-theraputic, anti  scientific, anti-intellectual and luminously wrong.

Helensf
26 May 2012 2:48AM
Response to JonathanKent, 25 May 2012 9:11PM
I went to a Steiner school and a girl in my class was left-handed but forced to write with her right. She was taken to the doctor to prove that she could use her right but was just choosing to use her 'wrong' hand. However this was twenty years ago so I would hope things have changed

restlessSF
25 May 2012 11:48PM
I worry a bit on Steiner schools as the perfect breeding ground for almost disappeared contagious diseases: measles, rubella, mumps, whooping cough, they could even bring tetanus back, with their love of gardening and walks in the forest. This because the view of steinerians, and of most of the parents that choose this schools, regarding vaccination is that is something dangerous, to be avoided in favour of a more "olistic" approach.
A sentence like this:"A reductionist biology which states or implies that the human body is a machine … is not one which nourishes the adolescent's deepest concerns. The current theories are just that – theories. They have not been in existence long and though presented as 'truth' they will inevitably change" should be enough to exclude the Steiner schools from every form of state help, I don't want my tax money to pay this. Thanks.
PS: Actually the bit I about changing theories is very interesting, it shows clearly how they just don't get the essence of the scientific method. Of course theories will change in time: In science a theory is valid untill somebody "falsifies" it with a repeatable experiment, and proposes a new one, that will then stay valid until somebody else will falsify it. Mind you, some theories are pretty hard to falsify...
There is no absolute truth, it is not religion.

Saff
25 May 2012 10:35PM
I was considering studying to become a Steiner nursery teacher when I read the website for the training college and came across a case study of a school which said - the teacher plays the lute while the angels lulled the children to sleep. I couldn't do it - as an alternative primary level education I think Montessori is better, it has an extremely well developed, intelligent maths curriculum and materials, science, geography, well designed reading and writing methods and materials, good geography materials (check out the trinomial and binomial cube from the maths materials and you can see the woman was a genius) and curriculum as well as all that creative/alternative stuff parents are looking for that seems to be lacking in mainstream. In a good montessori school children can get both and not miss out on the solid learning they need to survive in the world. In that sense it is more balanced than Steiner.

MrTubs
25 May 2012 9:58PM
I grew up near a Steiner school (near Gloucester) and had lots of friends who had attended it. Many had real problems adjusting to thr world...getting and holding down work, dealing with the reality of everyday life. They would often struggle emotionally and underachive. However I have brother with developmental disabilities who could not cope with state school and would have benefitted by being at a Steiner school.

 JavaJive
25 May 2012 9:22PM
I love almost all of the approaches of Steiner education, the gentleness, the softness and the humanity.
But I cannot send my kids to a school that demeans science - not the technology, but the process - as I have discovered in my life that the understanding of the natural world offered by science is one of the most beautiful of human achievements. I include Darwin and Einstein as part of this endless human project.
If you read Steiner's book the Kingdom of Childhood, he dismisses General Relatively with what I took to be a strong done of anti-semitism. Even with that issue aside, I have studied Relatively and its it one of the wonders of the human world - alongside the greatest art and literature.
Perhaps one day the Steiner movement will start to think for itself and modernise, not normalise, but incorporate the best of human values with the best and highest of all human achievement.
The you would have a real human force to reckon with. In hope... Dr Ben Lane (ex plain theoretical physicist now environmental technologist).

diotavelli
25 May 2012 9:17PM
Response to 0800, 25 May 2012 8:49PM
Look at how Steiner kids end up as adults. Are they evil, damaged, misinformed, ignorant, unhappy, unemployable, bored, suicidal, miserable, anti-social, zealots etc?
Yep, I know a family of three siblings, now in their thirties, all Steiner educated. One committed suicide a few years back. One is a recovering addict. The other is now a research scientist but talks passionately about her "wasted years", struggling to reach the level of her comprehensively-educated peers so as to get research posts and funding.
The suggestion that no kid who had a Steiner education didn't have a difficult life subsequently is fatuous and ridiculous.
You are quite obviously an idiot.

intandem
25 May 2012 9:12PM
I chose a Steiner school for the Kindergarten years, because I considered that a 4 year old didn't need to learn to read / write and research the internet for facts on bees. They could learn about bees by encountering them (experiential learning) and their time was much better spent playing freely in a beautiful environment and cared for by teachers who cared for them as human beings.
The problem I saw was that, once a child hits the 'classes' (age 6 and a half-7) the esoteric aspects of the education become too much and undermine a perfectly lovely way of teaching. i.e. Steiner schools are non-denominational, but really... they are based on Anthroposophy, which is the science of man from an esoteric point of view. The problem is that they wouldn't admit it. As an insider in the school, I once heard a senior teacher admit that 'we can't tell the parents that the education is based on Esoteric Christianity'. So the main issue for me was that they weren't being honest. This deceit was my main reason for taking my children out.

JonathanKent
25 May 2012 9:11PM
I've been interested in Steiner education since interviewing someone who went on to be a well known author who went to the Steiner school in Forest Row in Sussex. She couldn't read until she was 12 or 13, something she says she was never made to feel was a problem, but went on to write several very well thought of novels.
However recently I talked to someone else who went to the Forest Row school who said that left handed children were made to write with their right hand while holding a crystal in their left. That struck me as ante-diluvian, a realthrowback to Steiner education's 1920s roots, if true.
Has anyone else encountered this? If so I couldn't send my child to such a place




Thursday, May 24, 2012

Parent's Eyes Opened by Critical Reviews

Here's another story from the same thread started by "Beansavi" - a young
Waldorf teacher who, along with her child, was abused by Waldorf. I love the
little recommendation at the end of this one:

"This thread has been a fascinating read. Bean, I have shed tears from your
heart wrenching posts. Your councilor's words were spot on -- so many times I
swallow my outrage when something seems off because I fear humiliation that I
read the situation wrong or am overeacting. After reading your story -- I will
feel this way no more.

We were on the brink of joining the Waldorf community here and thankfully I had
an interaction with someone that pushed all my buttons and sent me running for
the exit. I was seeing a chiropractor who is ensconced in the local Waldorf
scene -- both kids attend, she's on all the committees, totally totes the pary
line, and preys upon her clients with children to join. She's a Waldofian
Witness! Her practice is run out of her home and some of her kids' "plant
stained toys from Germany" (love that whichever one of you said that!) are in
the office for patients' kids to play with as they wait. My dd, 3 at the time
and deeply into the Cinderella, Snow White, and all things pink and Disney
Princess, played happily with the Waldorf Toys.

At the end of one visit, the chiro made small talk with my dd as I whipped out
the checkbook. Inn her beautiful little girl voice, I heard my dd innocently ask
the chiro, "Do you got Cinderella?" I have no idea if she meant a doll or the
movie -- or just a plant stained wooden toy that was vaguely princess-like. The
chiro then responded to my child in the smuggest tone possible, "Oh no, the
children who live here do not watch TV." I could tell she was saying this as
much to my dd as she was to me. Writing these words, it might not seem like much
of an affront -- but it was the superior tone and the "Ah Ha!! Caught you! You
plastic-owning, TV watching wolves in plant dyed biodynamic sheep's clothing!
You are inferior!" I so wanted to say something, but just shrugged it off,
gathered up dd, and left. I now wish I hadn't bitten my tongue.

This women and her smug superiority became the face of the local Waldorf
community for me and we thankfully avoided going any further along in the
process of enrolling dd. She called and emailed a few times about both making
another appointment and why weren't we following up at the school? I never
responded. Like you, Bean, I saw her at the natural foods store, but walked in
the other direction.

Bean and other parents, you should really write a book or have a website with
your stories. That way, when someone googles Waldorf, your stories will come up
in their search."

Parent Discovers Bullying at Waldorf

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group


"I had watched the first few classes of children at our school grow up. By the
time they were teens, I noticed that they had several behavioral patterns that
were alarming to say the least and very surprising for all that Anthroposophy
had touted as its effects.

These children were incessantly and intensely cruel toward the younger children
at the school, they were frequently seen rolling their eyes at the adults in the
community (both faculty and parents) and they were behaving in ways that were
not reflecting absorption of the values that Waldorf espouses - in fact, the
ways in which they were behaving were typical of children who've been
overcontrolled for too long and were angry.

To me, this all speaks of other kinds of lessons well-learned such as "Do as I
say, not as I do" i.e. teaching noble ethics such as the idea of reverence for
all beings and yet having some severe blind spots in reality that result in very
strange behavioral double standards that do not reflect any such concept (and,
in fact, reflect the extreme opposite - apathy for all/other beings).

Back then, still being the mother of younger children, I thought that this was
'normal' and that I should just chalk it all up to 'teenage rebellion' and
hormones, etc. Now I know otherwise. In fact, I am grateful to know dozens of
teens and young adults who are kind, thoughtful people and, interestingly, none
of them have ever been involved in Waldorf. The fact that ALL of the older
children I observed at the Waldorf school behaved this way to varying degrees is
quite striking to me and definitely not possible to write off as a nuance of
personality.

In fact, I believe that it is the result of
highly-coercive/authoritarian/paternalistic rearing and educating that utilizes
varying types of force and shaming as effective tools. That style of
rearing/educating is reflected in other schools of thought than just
Anthroposophy, to be sure, but the interesting thing to note here is that
Anthroposophy promotes itself as being a most natural, healthy, loving,
supportive, nurturing and evolved method. To me, it is most influenced by the
very prevalant (and therefore nearly invisible) anglo-Christian
dogma-as-default.

And, to clarify my stance ~ I would have felt totally ok and respectful of the
situation had these aspects been clearly expressed, especially when I and others
asked pointed questions regarding these matters. That way, I could have made an
educated decision about whether Waldorf was right for my family or not early on
instead of many years into our community and educational experience. Instead, I
experienced a pattern of avoidance to answer, answers that resembled fluttering
butterflies that were 'beating around the bush' and, at best, fancy answers that
felt like they had been heavily-scented with artificial floral constituents from
some PR rhetoric manual. THAT is my point of contention about all of this. My
opinion is that the facts of their beliefs and agenda need to be made waaaay
more clear and especially not hidden for fear of "people misunderstanding their
meaning" as if parents should routinely be distrusted to think intelligently for
themselves and make their own educated decisions about what is best for their
family and children."

General Discussion about Waldorf Schools

http://parents.berkeley.edu/recommend/schools/waldorf.html

We sent our daughter to Waldorf in Emeryville, lo those many years ago (1993). Maybe we were out of our minds (we were victims of the east bay "firestorm" and were in the middle of a three year nomadic period in which we moved 7 times and were forced to sue the insurance company or face starting all over from zero with toddler twins and two teen-agers. Yes, our decision to send her there may have been unbalanced).
What attracted us was an active music program and a certain global, intellectual/educational curiosity on the part of the teachers. It looked good. We tried to ignore our initial gut reaction that the staff and dedicated parents seemed all to exude an eerie, "Landru is All. Are you part of the body?" syndrome. We felt like alien hyper-intellectuals. Firstly, they misrepresented themselves. We asked explicitly about the religious nature of the school and were told that, though they were, in some tangential way, a "Christian" organization, historically, there was no theological/religious bias. Around the winter vacation, our daughter came home, rattled, and in tears.
"I don't understand," she said. "At school, they told us that the child is coming and everything will be o.k."
"Who's the child?" we asked her.
"I think it's a boy in the other kindergarten class. He's in a play about the saviour. Is he the saviour? Why is everything going to be all right? Why is he coming again? He didn't even come into our class once."
oh boy.
We marched off to school and asked what was going on. The answers were feeble and meandering, at best. It was evident that they had no clue of the effect of their "tangential" Christian metaphoric roots on growing young children.
Then there was the Landru effect. They really did have an image of children being these innocent little waifs, happy, serene receptacles into which their teachers might pour an entire Waldorf world-view. The rigidity of materials used in class, the dim lighting, the low energy level....were geared to kids with low metabolic function who were, by nature, obedient, malleable and unquestioning. O.K. My obvious bias is showing. I recognize that. It wasn't long before the teacher took us aside and suggested that since our daughter wanted to explore outside the prescribed lines, question the logic of instructions, and pretty much, follow her own creative, exuberant curiosities (that different drummer), she must be hyper-active and have oppositional problems. Hmmmm. I understand that the Waldorf systems in Europe are not so rigid or sanctimonious, so lecturing or idiopathic. And I hear that even in the states, the severity of the intellectual/spiritual anti-gravity effect differs from school to school. But, gee whiz, if your child is an independent thinker and a vibrant personality, I would recommend against Waldorf.
Oh, I forgot: They have a mystical ceremony on a child's birthday. There are a lot of candles lit, and the birthday kid sits in a chair across from the parents, separated by a bridge. The teacher explains that the angel child, before it was born, selected the two perfect parents, and then after much mystic m-bo jm-bo, crossed over this ethereal bridge to join its parents in the physical world. Then this bridge-crossing is acted out. There was a hitch in our ceremony, because our daughter, while lighting the candles along the bridge, caught her hair on fire. It was hard to return to the ethereal, metaphoric plain after rolling her in a towel and drying her tears. Still, that weird smell of burning hair.........."happy birthday to you....happy birthday to you...happy biRTHday......".
This was kindergarten. I shall give them the benefit of the doubt in suspecting that this kind of air-headedness subsides as the children get older. This has been simmering in me for a number of years. I apologize for the strength of my opinions if they have offended anyone. But this has been completely honest. I am also very sure that there are inquisitive, gifted and unusual children who are suited very well to the Waldorf atmosphere. I also hear that the dogmatic, religious adherence to Waldorfian principles varies from school to school.
Tobie 


Feb 2002 There are good things about some parts of Waldorf- teaching to the whole child, but and it's a big But there are some parts that aren't too great. Academically I worry about the level and quality of academics. While some schools may really overemphasize reading- Waldorf isn't very fast on the draw with reading. On the surface, this sounds ok- but in reality, your child may not have the emphasis put on reading that he or she should have. Math is another weak area- I have concerns about math teaching. While there are great classes such as eurhythmics (movement) taught, the curriculum is not clearly articulated. Parents are not, and I mean not encouraged to give their feedback on curriculum. The school believes that they, and only they know the appropriate methods for teaching children and they definitely, have no interest in parents giving input into curriculum. Hope this helps anonymous 

Waldorf and ADHD

http://www.waldorfeducation.me.uk/

Three years after our family left the Waldorf school our daughter was diagnosed
with ADHD. This may explain the severity of some of her problems. The condition
makes her highly sensitive and this probably made her a magnet for bullying. It
also meant she had difficulty with concentrating and sitting still during
lessons.

However, it doesn't change her story. She may have been more vulnerable to
bullying than the average child, but the school made no attempt to resolve this,
in fact on one occasion a teacher told me that 'She asked for it.' She may have
been difficult in class, but was her teacher's response, to make her stand in
the corner for rest of the lesson, an appropriate one? The school also refused
to allow her psychiatrist to observe her in class which may have helped to get
her diagnosed. The school's opinion was always that Joanna's behaviour was
because she was emotionally disturbed because of problems in her home life.

I am now very worried that some Waldorf schools, are saying that Steiner
education is especially good for ADHD children. While I agree that the
structured day of the Kindergarten did suit Joanna well, once in Class 1 the
Steiner system, in retrospect, was most unsuitable. The 2 hour main lesson must
have seemed like torture to her.

Most importantly, my daughter was asked to leave because of her behaviour. Some
of it may well have been due to her ADHD and a lot to the reaction of the other
pupils to her ADHD and the fact that the teacher could not cope with her. I am
amazed that, in spite of this, Waldorf schools, including the one our family
attended, are claiming to be especially suited to ADHD children. At least one
other ADHD child was asked to leave this school. It seems they are not good at
coping with this special need. I would have hoped that at least they had learned
this, but it seems that is not the case.

ADHD children are particularly bad at coping with rejection. Schools should
never go out of their way to attract them unless they are as sure as they can be
of their commitment to the child and of their ability to meet their needs. The
Waldorf school Joanna attended was totally unable to meet her needs. She went on
to an ordinary village primary where they did cope. Even though she was still
undiagnosed they helped her immensely and never felt the need to blame us or to
call her emotionally disturbed.

Monday, May 7, 2012

Tacoma Waldorf School - Reviews by Parents

Seriously lacking in the grade school, but sweet and flowery in kindergarten. Too bad it stays sweet and flowery in the grades at the detriment of learning any thing like reading or math. I was very disappointed about the serious delay in academics, even for Waldorf standards.  —Submitted by a parent

Posted February 17, 2007
I like the school, but it seriously lacks in governance and there is cliquey ness within the untrained staff. I find the school to be clinging onto the pioneering aspects of the school without hiring and retaining qualified professionals and good teachers. A high turnover rate it seems. Over the top need for help from parents, yet help is sorely unappreciated and lead roles are dominated by a few who seek to gain status and power.
—Submitted by a parent