Showing posts with label Waldorf school reviews by parents. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Waldorf school reviews by parents. Show all posts
Thursday, May 24, 2012
Parent Lied to by Waldorf
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group/2\
40
Poster 1:
Hello again everyone,
I'm not sure how or where to begin. I tried to start from the beginning but it
felt stilted and I felt disconnected from what I was writing. I guess that's how
I've been dealing with it all these years, by disconnecting and not allowing
myself to feel what was happening. I was sucked into the whole Steiner thing
because I deeply desired community, and I had never really fitted into the
conventional frameworks, so I was so relieved to discover these hippy dippy
folks who looked and sounded just like me. When it all fell apart I totally took
the blame on board and thought that it was me, my son, and our social
difficulties. Now after reading this thread (sorry but I do not have the time
right now to go back and read the other whole thread) I'm scared because it
looks like I might have to start ripping the scabs off that old pain, for both
me and my son to heal. I have so many regrets about what happened to my son as a
result of my blindness, I so badly wanted to fit somewhere. So I have mixed
feelings about having discovered this thread. It's so good to know I'm not
alone, it's scary to start to look at it all again and face the fact that maybe
it wasn't all my fault, you would think I would be relieved about that wouldn't
you but actually I realised that I am frightened to put our story up here. What
if...... gulp someone reads it and recognises who I am. I've moved half a world
or more away from that community but I still want them to think well of me!!!!!
How nuts is that.
Oh well, gotta go make dinner for the lucky younger ones for whom a
Steiner/Waldorf education is NEVER going to happen.
Oh does anyone else think it curious that they are Steiner schools in Europe but
Waldorf in the USA?
Poster 2:
Is it your fault if you were led to believe one thing and then it turns out that
you were lied to? I don't think so. Everything in WS is crafted in such away
that unless you have a problem, you may never know what is really going on
behind the scenes. Which doesn't make anyone who has broken away a bad person,
how are you supposed to know? We wanted to do what we thought was "best" for our
children. Unfortunately Anthroposophy doesn't encourage doing what's best for
the individual child who doesn't fit into their molds like they should.
You should know you didn't do anything wrong. They may want you to think that
you did something wrong but your children come 1st. It takes courage to break
away and you should be proud of yourself.
Parent's Eyes Opened by Critical Reviews
Here's another story from the same thread started by "Beansavi" - a young
Waldorf teacher who, along with her child, was abused by Waldorf. I love the
little recommendation at the end of this one:
"This thread has been a fascinating read. Bean, I have shed tears from your
heart wrenching posts. Your councilor's words were spot on -- so many times I
swallow my outrage when something seems off because I fear humiliation that I
read the situation wrong or am overeacting. After reading your story -- I will
feel this way no more.
We were on the brink of joining the Waldorf community here and thankfully I had
an interaction with someone that pushed all my buttons and sent me running for
the exit. I was seeing a chiropractor who is ensconced in the local Waldorf
scene -- both kids attend, she's on all the committees, totally totes the pary
line, and preys upon her clients with children to join. She's a Waldofian
Witness! Her practice is run out of her home and some of her kids' "plant
stained toys from Germany" (love that whichever one of you said that!) are in
the office for patients' kids to play with as they wait. My dd, 3 at the time
and deeply into the Cinderella, Snow White, and all things pink and Disney
Princess, played happily with the Waldorf Toys.
At the end of one visit, the chiro made small talk with my dd as I whipped out
the checkbook. Inn her beautiful little girl voice, I heard my dd innocently ask
the chiro, "Do you got Cinderella?" I have no idea if she meant a doll or the
movie -- or just a plant stained wooden toy that was vaguely princess-like. The
chiro then responded to my child in the smuggest tone possible, "Oh no, the
children who live here do not watch TV." I could tell she was saying this as
much to my dd as she was to me. Writing these words, it might not seem like much
of an affront -- but it was the superior tone and the "Ah Ha!! Caught you! You
plastic-owning, TV watching wolves in plant dyed biodynamic sheep's clothing!
You are inferior!" I so wanted to say something, but just shrugged it off,
gathered up dd, and left. I now wish I hadn't bitten my tongue.
This women and her smug superiority became the face of the local Waldorf
community for me and we thankfully avoided going any further along in the
process of enrolling dd. She called and emailed a few times about both making
another appointment and why weren't we following up at the school? I never
responded. Like you, Bean, I saw her at the natural foods store, but walked in
the other direction.
Bean and other parents, you should really write a book or have a website with
your stories. That way, when someone googles Waldorf, your stories will come up
in their search."
Waldorf teacher who, along with her child, was abused by Waldorf. I love the
little recommendation at the end of this one:
"This thread has been a fascinating read. Bean, I have shed tears from your
heart wrenching posts. Your councilor's words were spot on -- so many times I
swallow my outrage when something seems off because I fear humiliation that I
read the situation wrong or am overeacting. After reading your story -- I will
feel this way no more.
We were on the brink of joining the Waldorf community here and thankfully I had
an interaction with someone that pushed all my buttons and sent me running for
the exit. I was seeing a chiropractor who is ensconced in the local Waldorf
scene -- both kids attend, she's on all the committees, totally totes the pary
line, and preys upon her clients with children to join. She's a Waldofian
Witness! Her practice is run out of her home and some of her kids' "plant
stained toys from Germany" (love that whichever one of you said that!) are in
the office for patients' kids to play with as they wait. My dd, 3 at the time
and deeply into the Cinderella, Snow White, and all things pink and Disney
Princess, played happily with the Waldorf Toys.
At the end of one visit, the chiro made small talk with my dd as I whipped out
the checkbook. Inn her beautiful little girl voice, I heard my dd innocently ask
the chiro, "Do you got Cinderella?" I have no idea if she meant a doll or the
movie -- or just a plant stained wooden toy that was vaguely princess-like. The
chiro then responded to my child in the smuggest tone possible, "Oh no, the
children who live here do not watch TV." I could tell she was saying this as
much to my dd as she was to me. Writing these words, it might not seem like much
of an affront -- but it was the superior tone and the "Ah Ha!! Caught you! You
plastic-owning, TV watching wolves in plant dyed biodynamic sheep's clothing!
You are inferior!" I so wanted to say something, but just shrugged it off,
gathered up dd, and left. I now wish I hadn't bitten my tongue.
This women and her smug superiority became the face of the local Waldorf
community for me and we thankfully avoided going any further along in the
process of enrolling dd. She called and emailed a few times about both making
another appointment and why weren't we following up at the school? I never
responded. Like you, Bean, I saw her at the natural foods store, but walked in
the other direction.
Bean and other parents, you should really write a book or have a website with
your stories. That way, when someone googles Waldorf, your stories will come up
in their search."
Leaving Waldorf - Parent Support
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group/1\
60
One poster:
Hello,
Thanks for this thread-I really need it right at this moment, my hsb. and I are
making the decision at this moment to leave our WS. This is so difficult, and
brought about by many, many concerns on behalf of our child. I am really hoping
to share with others whose children have transitioned to other schools, while in
the grades. I feel almost like we are surrounded by a fog that is gradually
beginning to lift after many years, yet I am so apprehensive. I am worried for
my child-we haven't discussed this change yet, as our decision has been
evolving, and I am worried that we will lose our community of friends, as those
leaving are generally portrayed as problematic. I can't believe we are in the
middle of this...sigh.
Second poster:
HI ______, you aren't alone. It can be difficult and worrisome but I think it
will get easier once you've decided to leave. My dd was angry 2 weeks ago when
we told her. Now she's getting excited about the change. We went past the public
school she will be attending and she was shouting "There's my new school,
There's my new school." I think she's know something isn't right for a while
with WS. So it's sort of a relief to not go back.
First poster:
Thanks for the support. Can I ask how you explained your decision to your
daughter? Our grown up concerns obviously are for us alone-all my daughter will
see is the loss of her friends of several years, and change is difficult for
her. On the other hand, perhaps I should be looking for the strengths and
resiliency that she has, rather than focus on the anxiety of the situation? Any
thoughts are helpful to me!
Second poster:
I guess it helped that my daughter has asked to go to public school for a while.
My dh, teaches in the school disctrict we are sending her. We also know at least
one other Waldorf family who sent their children for Kindergarten only at
Waldorf and is now at the same school where dd is going. My dd also knows a boy
in a grade ahead of her because of my dh's business. Plus being a teacher in the
school district we know lots of teacher's and administrator's. So we just told
her that she was going to public school because we were not happy with the
teacher that was selected to teach the class. We would find tutors to continue
her german and violin lessons. I think I may have told her something like, to be
a good parent sometimes means making big decisions to protect her interests and
remove her from situations which I see are harmful. We pointed out that she was
behind in math and that she would need to be tutored over the summer. If Waldorf
education was the best we wouldn't have these concerns. So she was pretty happy
because we were going to let her take violin. Any other questions about friends
I answered we shall see what happens. She asked about birthday parties, etc...
Since it was a year ahead of time we told her we couldn't answer things like
that, right now. My daughter never thinks in the here and now. So the transition
went easily. I never really let myself get really close to anyone in the class,
so it's not like I really felt she had strong ties to the children. The women I
talk to have either younger or older children and completely understand what the
class has gone through. They would have taken their kids out too. So she will
continue to have relationships with Waldorf children but just not the
dysfunction that went on with her class.
It also helps that many of my good friends live out of the state. So she sees
that my own friendships aren't limited to the Waldorf community. Plus with my
dh's business we have friends we only see once a year when we travel for shows.
So to me, a friendship is not limited to people you see on a daily basis. She
was also on the bullying end of the totem pole and I'm sure it's a relief to not
be going back to that. I hope this helps you and that it is understandable. I
was interupted by my littlest too many times to think straight.
Third poster:
I am glad you found us. I agree that focusing on your child's strengths is a
good place to start. Without trying to sound tacky, I felt my leaving the
Waldorf was very similar to leaving a cult. I was shunned and lost everything.
I was literally in a daze and humiliated. Maybe those feelings are stronger than
what you are going thru, but in any event, it helps to know how others dealt.
I cannot state strongly enough that my son blossomed after leaving Waldorf.
Quite frankly, he never looked back. At 12 years old he still talks about how
unhappy he was there, even when he looked like he was having fun.
60
One poster:
Hello,
Thanks for this thread-I really need it right at this moment, my hsb. and I are
making the decision at this moment to leave our WS. This is so difficult, and
brought about by many, many concerns on behalf of our child. I am really hoping
to share with others whose children have transitioned to other schools, while in
the grades. I feel almost like we are surrounded by a fog that is gradually
beginning to lift after many years, yet I am so apprehensive. I am worried for
my child-we haven't discussed this change yet, as our decision has been
evolving, and I am worried that we will lose our community of friends, as those
leaving are generally portrayed as problematic. I can't believe we are in the
middle of this...sigh.
Second poster:
HI ______, you aren't alone. It can be difficult and worrisome but I think it
will get easier once you've decided to leave. My dd was angry 2 weeks ago when
we told her. Now she's getting excited about the change. We went past the public
school she will be attending and she was shouting "There's my new school,
There's my new school." I think she's know something isn't right for a while
with WS. So it's sort of a relief to not go back.
First poster:
Thanks for the support. Can I ask how you explained your decision to your
daughter? Our grown up concerns obviously are for us alone-all my daughter will
see is the loss of her friends of several years, and change is difficult for
her. On the other hand, perhaps I should be looking for the strengths and
resiliency that she has, rather than focus on the anxiety of the situation? Any
thoughts are helpful to me!
Second poster:
I guess it helped that my daughter has asked to go to public school for a while.
My dh, teaches in the school disctrict we are sending her. We also know at least
one other Waldorf family who sent their children for Kindergarten only at
Waldorf and is now at the same school where dd is going. My dd also knows a boy
in a grade ahead of her because of my dh's business. Plus being a teacher in the
school district we know lots of teacher's and administrator's. So we just told
her that she was going to public school because we were not happy with the
teacher that was selected to teach the class. We would find tutors to continue
her german and violin lessons. I think I may have told her something like, to be
a good parent sometimes means making big decisions to protect her interests and
remove her from situations which I see are harmful. We pointed out that she was
behind in math and that she would need to be tutored over the summer. If Waldorf
education was the best we wouldn't have these concerns. So she was pretty happy
because we were going to let her take violin. Any other questions about friends
I answered we shall see what happens. She asked about birthday parties, etc...
Since it was a year ahead of time we told her we couldn't answer things like
that, right now. My daughter never thinks in the here and now. So the transition
went easily. I never really let myself get really close to anyone in the class,
so it's not like I really felt she had strong ties to the children. The women I
talk to have either younger or older children and completely understand what the
class has gone through. They would have taken their kids out too. So she will
continue to have relationships with Waldorf children but just not the
dysfunction that went on with her class.
It also helps that many of my good friends live out of the state. So she sees
that my own friendships aren't limited to the Waldorf community. Plus with my
dh's business we have friends we only see once a year when we travel for shows.
So to me, a friendship is not limited to people you see on a daily basis. She
was also on the bullying end of the totem pole and I'm sure it's a relief to not
be going back to that. I hope this helps you and that it is understandable. I
was interupted by my littlest too many times to think straight.
Third poster:
I am glad you found us. I agree that focusing on your child's strengths is a
good place to start. Without trying to sound tacky, I felt my leaving the
Waldorf was very similar to leaving a cult. I was shunned and lost everything.
I was literally in a daze and humiliated. Maybe those feelings are stronger than
what you are going thru, but in any event, it helps to know how others dealt.
I cannot state strongly enough that my son blossomed after leaving Waldorf.
Quite frankly, he never looked back. At 12 years old he still talks about how
unhappy he was there, even when he looked like he was having fun.
Waldorf Teacher Abusive to Child
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group/1\
00
"As we walked across the grocery store parking lot that first humid day of
summer, I said to my son, "Tell me what happened. Show me what she did. Pretend
you are Miss X. and show me what happened to you."
Sam immediately took on the persona of his teacher. He grabbed my wrist, two
fingernails digging into my skin.
"Come here!" he scowled in a stage whisper.
I looked around at the people eating lunch in the outdoor café. They were seated
in the shade at the wrought iron tables, under large green umbrellas. I knew
some of them thought they were witnessing a real incident, a child grabbing his
mother's arm in anger.
I didn't care.
I needed to feel what he had felt. I needed, from my primal mothering
soul-level, to be there with him in that moment that has haunted us both for
over five years.
Next, Sam told me Miss X. dragged him up the stairwell, into a nook between the
first and second floors. "Stop acting crazy!" she hissed. Sam had fire in his
eyes as he looked at me, taking on her persona.
"Stop it!" he cried… and... SLAP!
My wrist ached as it bent to an unnatural angle in his young hand. An impression
of pink remained on the back of my hand. His "beloved" teacher had smacked him
on the hand with the powerful force of an adult: projecting what felt like adult
emotions onto the back of his small, white hand.
That pink mark would eventually fade, but it's spiritual sting would remain. The
pink stinging sensation colored much of what Sam and I did for years to come.
The pink would bleed into all of our relationships: school, work, play, church,
and home.
There was no escape.
And to think... that same shade of pink was what had first drawn me to the
school."
00
"As we walked across the grocery store parking lot that first humid day of
summer, I said to my son, "Tell me what happened. Show me what she did. Pretend
you are Miss X. and show me what happened to you."
Sam immediately took on the persona of his teacher. He grabbed my wrist, two
fingernails digging into my skin.
"Come here!" he scowled in a stage whisper.
I looked around at the people eating lunch in the outdoor café. They were seated
in the shade at the wrought iron tables, under large green umbrellas. I knew
some of them thought they were witnessing a real incident, a child grabbing his
mother's arm in anger.
I didn't care.
I needed to feel what he had felt. I needed, from my primal mothering
soul-level, to be there with him in that moment that has haunted us both for
over five years.
Next, Sam told me Miss X. dragged him up the stairwell, into a nook between the
first and second floors. "Stop acting crazy!" she hissed. Sam had fire in his
eyes as he looked at me, taking on her persona.
"Stop it!" he cried… and... SLAP!
My wrist ached as it bent to an unnatural angle in his young hand. An impression
of pink remained on the back of my hand. His "beloved" teacher had smacked him
on the hand with the powerful force of an adult: projecting what felt like adult
emotions onto the back of his small, white hand.
That pink mark would eventually fade, but it's spiritual sting would remain. The
pink stinging sensation colored much of what Sam and I did for years to come.
The pink would bleed into all of our relationships: school, work, play, church,
and home.
There was no escape.
And to think... that same shade of pink was what had first drawn me to the
school."
Waldorf - Bullied Sick
"I think I would feel more comfortable if they told me that she had a karmic
score that she was paying back. They've always denied that their was a problem.
Even though 80-85% of the class went to the proper people, individually and said
there is a big problem. This year it was so bad that children were sick from
fear of being bullied and didn't want to go to school. I didn't know this until
a special meeting was called to announce the departure of the teacher. Then all
the parents told the college that they wanted a teacher who could deal with the
problems that keep reoccuring. It was also pointed out that many parents had
complained but everyone was told that they were the only family in the class
with the problem. I know that the children in the class were going through the 9
year change but I think this was magnified because of the adults denying it.
Also the child who was the bully, was given bare minimum punishments because
this child was a teacher's child. It is hard to feel that the children are in
safe environment because the teachers deny anything is occuring. Instead we were
told that because we didn't support the teacher this is why the teacher is
leaving. Well that's fine if they want to point the finger but they still deny
that anything happened. I know we all make mistakes but nothing has ever been
explained in a spiritual/anthroposophical way. It's always deny there's a
problem and if you get caught denying it, then say it's the parents fault. I
know I'm far from perfect but I guess I look up to these teachers. When little
ole me can see something is amiss it saddens me that something could have been
done early to head off this problem. I think considering my daughter's position
with the bully she did excellant this year. We also read tons of stories at home
to help her, took her to counseling, and got ahold of tapes from a Waldorf
counselour?/teacher? that talks about bullying in a child's life. Now the
question is will we get an experienced teacher, who can help these children? I
also might get her retested to see if her hearing has changed any. We've put her
on a special diet that is supposed help."
score that she was paying back. They've always denied that their was a problem.
Even though 80-85% of the class went to the proper people, individually and said
there is a big problem. This year it was so bad that children were sick from
fear of being bullied and didn't want to go to school. I didn't know this until
a special meeting was called to announce the departure of the teacher. Then all
the parents told the college that they wanted a teacher who could deal with the
problems that keep reoccuring. It was also pointed out that many parents had
complained but everyone was told that they were the only family in the class
with the problem. I know that the children in the class were going through the 9
year change but I think this was magnified because of the adults denying it.
Also the child who was the bully, was given bare minimum punishments because
this child was a teacher's child. It is hard to feel that the children are in
safe environment because the teachers deny anything is occuring. Instead we were
told that because we didn't support the teacher this is why the teacher is
leaving. Well that's fine if they want to point the finger but they still deny
that anything happened. I know we all make mistakes but nothing has ever been
explained in a spiritual/anthroposophical way. It's always deny there's a
problem and if you get caught denying it, then say it's the parents fault. I
know I'm far from perfect but I guess I look up to these teachers. When little
ole me can see something is amiss it saddens me that something could have been
done early to head off this problem. I think considering my daughter's position
with the bully she did excellant this year. We also read tons of stories at home
to help her, took her to counseling, and got ahold of tapes from a Waldorf
counselour?/teacher? that talks about bullying in a child's life. Now the
question is will we get an experienced teacher, who can help these children? I
also might get her retested to see if her hearing has changed any. We've put her
on a special diet that is supposed help."
Waldorf Teacher Assistant Speaks Out
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/368640/a-safe-healthy-haven-waldorf-questio\
ners-concerns-thread/60
"There is much to provoke thought and discussion in your post. I can understand
where you are coming from with your questions having had two children go through
KG and also worked as an assistant. Anyway I have just highlighted this part to
answer for now.
When I was working as an assistant a very lovely woman was the teacher and I
liked her a lot. She had a really natural ability to work with children which
was separate from her waldorf ways. However, I was always concerned about the
way that she never seemed to tell the parents when they came to collect their
children if they had either been hurt or had caused hurt to others physically.
The events seemed not to be recorded at all either. Certainly I was not asked to
countersign anything which bearing in mind I was a witness I would have
expected.
My children were in a different KG and I got so fed up with them having to tell
me at home what had happened to them, we are talking bruises and bites here,
that I phoned the teacher and insisted that I was informed directly by her about
these incidents. In the first KG we tried I was once mortified by another parent
coming to tell me that my son had attacked her child. The teacher had said
nothing when I collected him but I had noticed he seemed very upset. As I was
doing work around the school I caught up with the teacher a couple of hours
later to find out about the incident. Turned out he had been hit by another
child, retaliated and then been chastised by the older boy whom he then hit out
at. My question was then as now, why did a child step in rather than a teacher?
This was the only time my son has ever hit out at anyone other than his sibling.
The teacher merely said that she had been planning to speak to me about it
sometime!
My feeling is that it creates a strange relationship between parent and child if
these events are effectively kept secret. As an assistant I was told that I was
not to converse with the parents about the children. I later learned as we were
going up the grades that the teachers there did not like the parents to
interfere with the discipline and that that was why we were not told if there
were problems. My children were very open though and tended to own up to me
about their misdemeanours anyway. The teachers did not appear to be very happy
that I knew so much whenever I approached them to get their view.
Sorry I have rambled on a bit. I did eventually have to withdraw my children
from their WS because I had so little faith that their basic safety needs were
being taken care of. I am not talking about rough and tumble stuff as my
children physically are bold in the outdoor life and very competent in their
bodies. However, I do expect to be told if my child has been injured or had an
accident or behaved seriously innappropriately. I am just not happy with an
environment that doesn't communicate these things to parents."
ners-concerns-thread/60
"There is much to provoke thought and discussion in your post. I can understand
where you are coming from with your questions having had two children go through
KG and also worked as an assistant. Anyway I have just highlighted this part to
answer for now.
When I was working as an assistant a very lovely woman was the teacher and I
liked her a lot. She had a really natural ability to work with children which
was separate from her waldorf ways. However, I was always concerned about the
way that she never seemed to tell the parents when they came to collect their
children if they had either been hurt or had caused hurt to others physically.
The events seemed not to be recorded at all either. Certainly I was not asked to
countersign anything which bearing in mind I was a witness I would have
expected.
My children were in a different KG and I got so fed up with them having to tell
me at home what had happened to them, we are talking bruises and bites here,
that I phoned the teacher and insisted that I was informed directly by her about
these incidents. In the first KG we tried I was once mortified by another parent
coming to tell me that my son had attacked her child. The teacher had said
nothing when I collected him but I had noticed he seemed very upset. As I was
doing work around the school I caught up with the teacher a couple of hours
later to find out about the incident. Turned out he had been hit by another
child, retaliated and then been chastised by the older boy whom he then hit out
at. My question was then as now, why did a child step in rather than a teacher?
This was the only time my son has ever hit out at anyone other than his sibling.
The teacher merely said that she had been planning to speak to me about it
sometime!
My feeling is that it creates a strange relationship between parent and child if
these events are effectively kept secret. As an assistant I was told that I was
not to converse with the parents about the children. I later learned as we were
going up the grades that the teachers there did not like the parents to
interfere with the discipline and that that was why we were not told if there
were problems. My children were very open though and tended to own up to me
about their misdemeanours anyway. The teachers did not appear to be very happy
that I knew so much whenever I approached them to get their view.
Sorry I have rambled on a bit. I did eventually have to withdraw my children
from their WS because I had so little faith that their basic safety needs were
being taken care of. I am not talking about rough and tumble stuff as my
children physically are bold in the outdoor life and very competent in their
bodies. However, I do expect to be told if my child has been injured or had an
accident or behaved seriously innappropriately. I am just not happy with an
environment that doesn't communicate these things to parents."
Waldorf - A Quick but Long-lasting Peek
http://www.montessorianswers.com/my-experiences-with-waldorf.html
"My experience at that Waldorf School lasted only 8 weeks, but still 23 years
later, I remember it like it was yesterday. I left my student teaching position
there confused and angry. How could anything so beautiful to look at, be so
deceiving? I hated Waldorf and my stomach turned whenever it was mentioned even
casually at a party. When people spoke of how kind, how multi-modality, how
integrated, how beautiful, …. My blood pressure rose. At first I tried to
explain what I knew to be the truth, but no one would listen."
Parent Discovers Bullying at Waldorf
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/683104/life-after-waldorf-a-support-group
"I had watched the first few classes of children at our school grow up. By the
time they were teens, I noticed that they had several behavioral patterns that
were alarming to say the least and very surprising for all that Anthroposophy
had touted as its effects.
These children were incessantly and intensely cruel toward the younger children
at the school, they were frequently seen rolling their eyes at the adults in the
community (both faculty and parents) and they were behaving in ways that were
not reflecting absorption of the values that Waldorf espouses - in fact, the
ways in which they were behaving were typical of children who've been
overcontrolled for too long and were angry.
To me, this all speaks of other kinds of lessons well-learned such as "Do as I
say, not as I do" i.e. teaching noble ethics such as the idea of reverence for
all beings and yet having some severe blind spots in reality that result in very
strange behavioral double standards that do not reflect any such concept (and,
in fact, reflect the extreme opposite - apathy for all/other beings).
Back then, still being the mother of younger children, I thought that this was
'normal' and that I should just chalk it all up to 'teenage rebellion' and
hormones, etc. Now I know otherwise. In fact, I am grateful to know dozens of
teens and young adults who are kind, thoughtful people and, interestingly, none
of them have ever been involved in Waldorf. The fact that ALL of the older
children I observed at the Waldorf school behaved this way to varying degrees is
quite striking to me and definitely not possible to write off as a nuance of
personality.
In fact, I believe that it is the result of
highly-coercive/authoritarian/paternalistic rearing and educating that utilizes
varying types of force and shaming as effective tools. That style of
rearing/educating is reflected in other schools of thought than just
Anthroposophy, to be sure, but the interesting thing to note here is that
Anthroposophy promotes itself as being a most natural, healthy, loving,
supportive, nurturing and evolved method. To me, it is most influenced by the
very prevalant (and therefore nearly invisible) anglo-Christian
dogma-as-default.
And, to clarify my stance ~ I would have felt totally ok and respectful of the
situation had these aspects been clearly expressed, especially when I and others
asked pointed questions regarding these matters. That way, I could have made an
educated decision about whether Waldorf was right for my family or not early on
instead of many years into our community and educational experience. Instead, I
experienced a pattern of avoidance to answer, answers that resembled fluttering
butterflies that were 'beating around the bush' and, at best, fancy answers that
felt like they had been heavily-scented with artificial floral constituents from
some PR rhetoric manual. THAT is my point of contention about all of this. My
opinion is that the facts of their beliefs and agenda need to be made waaaay
more clear and especially not hidden for fear of "people misunderstanding their
meaning" as if parents should routinely be distrusted to think intelligently for
themselves and make their own educated decisions about what is best for their
family and children."
"I had watched the first few classes of children at our school grow up. By the
time they were teens, I noticed that they had several behavioral patterns that
were alarming to say the least and very surprising for all that Anthroposophy
had touted as its effects.
These children were incessantly and intensely cruel toward the younger children
at the school, they were frequently seen rolling their eyes at the adults in the
community (both faculty and parents) and they were behaving in ways that were
not reflecting absorption of the values that Waldorf espouses - in fact, the
ways in which they were behaving were typical of children who've been
overcontrolled for too long and were angry.
To me, this all speaks of other kinds of lessons well-learned such as "Do as I
say, not as I do" i.e. teaching noble ethics such as the idea of reverence for
all beings and yet having some severe blind spots in reality that result in very
strange behavioral double standards that do not reflect any such concept (and,
in fact, reflect the extreme opposite - apathy for all/other beings).
Back then, still being the mother of younger children, I thought that this was
'normal' and that I should just chalk it all up to 'teenage rebellion' and
hormones, etc. Now I know otherwise. In fact, I am grateful to know dozens of
teens and young adults who are kind, thoughtful people and, interestingly, none
of them have ever been involved in Waldorf. The fact that ALL of the older
children I observed at the Waldorf school behaved this way to varying degrees is
quite striking to me and definitely not possible to write off as a nuance of
personality.
In fact, I believe that it is the result of
highly-coercive/authoritarian/paternalistic rearing and educating that utilizes
varying types of force and shaming as effective tools. That style of
rearing/educating is reflected in other schools of thought than just
Anthroposophy, to be sure, but the interesting thing to note here is that
Anthroposophy promotes itself as being a most natural, healthy, loving,
supportive, nurturing and evolved method. To me, it is most influenced by the
very prevalant (and therefore nearly invisible) anglo-Christian
dogma-as-default.
And, to clarify my stance ~ I would have felt totally ok and respectful of the
situation had these aspects been clearly expressed, especially when I and others
asked pointed questions regarding these matters. That way, I could have made an
educated decision about whether Waldorf was right for my family or not early on
instead of many years into our community and educational experience. Instead, I
experienced a pattern of avoidance to answer, answers that resembled fluttering
butterflies that were 'beating around the bush' and, at best, fancy answers that
felt like they had been heavily-scented with artificial floral constituents from
some PR rhetoric manual. THAT is my point of contention about all of this. My
opinion is that the facts of their beliefs and agenda need to be made waaaay
more clear and especially not hidden for fear of "people misunderstanding their
meaning" as if parents should routinely be distrusted to think intelligently for
themselves and make their own educated decisions about what is best for their
family and children."
Parent Trusts Waldorf - Finds Incarnation Problems
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/368640/a-safe-healthy-haven-waldorf-questio\
ners-concerns-thread/60
"My son started a Waldorf Kindergarten at age 3 ½ (at this particular school
they had the preschool and Kindergarten in one class). Because we moved he went
to another Waldorf school when he was 5 and ½.
When it was time to go to first grade, at age 6 and ½ he was unable to focus in
the classroom of 20 children. He had difficulty following the teacher's
instructions and had a hard time sitting still. Also his drawing was not the
same level as most of his peers. After a month he was deemed to be too"
immature" to stay in first grade and was sent back in Kindergarten. At the time
I did not question the decision. I trusted them.
Staying back in Kindergarten was a big mistake. My son became very unruly,
disruptive and refused to participate in the activities. In particular he hated
all the circle games and eurhythmy. All this only made the Waldorf teachers even
more convinced that my son was still not ready for first grade.
We finally got outside help and took my son to see an occupational therapist who
confirmed that he had both fine and gross motor skill delays known as dyspraxia
resulting from sensory integration problems. Sensory over stimulation also
explained why my son could not focus in the first grade classroom. It was not
because he was too immature, but because there was too much stimulation in the
Waldorf classrooms. The set up, which is rows of desks with the teacher in the
front and lots of copying from the blackboard, is not an idea setting for allot
of children.
It was one of kindergarten teachers who first suggested that my son see an
Occupational therapist. However once he started going to one she disapproved of
what the occupational therapist did. The OT usually liked to visit the schools
of the children she was treating to see how they were doing and then give the
teachers advise, but my son's teachers refused to even allow her to visit the
class room! Anyway just a few weeks before my son's 7th birthday some so called
Waldorf "expert" on children with learning problems saw him and maintained that
my son STILL was not ready to go to first grade! She (the "expert") even made
fun of the OTs report saying, "what is dyspraxia? I can't even pronounce it!"
Her only advice was that he was not incarnating properly into his body and he
would have to go to a Waldorf school for children with special needs This was
the final straw for me. I never took our son back to that kindergarten again.
We put our him in a Montessori School instead. He continued seeing the
Occupational therapist. My son made wonderful improvements. To my great relief
the Montessori teachers have had no problem getting him to learn and to follow
and do the work. Within a few months he learned to read and write, do basic
addition and subtraction. And he loved it! Everyone who knew him commented on
how much happier my son seemed after I pulled him out of the Waldorf school.
His Montessori teachers all shook their heads in disbelief over the fact that he
was held back in Kindergarten another year for they felt he was so ready to
learn!
It has been 6 months now. My son is thriving in his new school and all his
behaviour problems are improving. I am still getting used to him not being
considered a "problem" anymore! I look back and it is so clear that Waldorf was
so, so wrong for him. I see he was bored in Kindergarten and angry for being
sent back there. I see it never suited his personality."
ners-concerns-thread/60
"My son started a Waldorf Kindergarten at age 3 ½ (at this particular school
they had the preschool and Kindergarten in one class). Because we moved he went
to another Waldorf school when he was 5 and ½.
When it was time to go to first grade, at age 6 and ½ he was unable to focus in
the classroom of 20 children. He had difficulty following the teacher's
instructions and had a hard time sitting still. Also his drawing was not the
same level as most of his peers. After a month he was deemed to be too"
immature" to stay in first grade and was sent back in Kindergarten. At the time
I did not question the decision. I trusted them.
Staying back in Kindergarten was a big mistake. My son became very unruly,
disruptive and refused to participate in the activities. In particular he hated
all the circle games and eurhythmy. All this only made the Waldorf teachers even
more convinced that my son was still not ready for first grade.
We finally got outside help and took my son to see an occupational therapist who
confirmed that he had both fine and gross motor skill delays known as dyspraxia
resulting from sensory integration problems. Sensory over stimulation also
explained why my son could not focus in the first grade classroom. It was not
because he was too immature, but because there was too much stimulation in the
Waldorf classrooms. The set up, which is rows of desks with the teacher in the
front and lots of copying from the blackboard, is not an idea setting for allot
of children.
It was one of kindergarten teachers who first suggested that my son see an
Occupational therapist. However once he started going to one she disapproved of
what the occupational therapist did. The OT usually liked to visit the schools
of the children she was treating to see how they were doing and then give the
teachers advise, but my son's teachers refused to even allow her to visit the
class room! Anyway just a few weeks before my son's 7th birthday some so called
Waldorf "expert" on children with learning problems saw him and maintained that
my son STILL was not ready to go to first grade! She (the "expert") even made
fun of the OTs report saying, "what is dyspraxia? I can't even pronounce it!"
Her only advice was that he was not incarnating properly into his body and he
would have to go to a Waldorf school for children with special needs This was
the final straw for me. I never took our son back to that kindergarten again.
We put our him in a Montessori School instead. He continued seeing the
Occupational therapist. My son made wonderful improvements. To my great relief
the Montessori teachers have had no problem getting him to learn and to follow
and do the work. Within a few months he learned to read and write, do basic
addition and subtraction. And he loved it! Everyone who knew him commented on
how much happier my son seemed after I pulled him out of the Waldorf school.
His Montessori teachers all shook their heads in disbelief over the fact that he
was held back in Kindergarten another year for they felt he was so ready to
learn!
It has been 6 months now. My son is thriving in his new school and all his
behaviour problems are improving. I am still getting used to him not being
considered a "problem" anymore! I look back and it is so clear that Waldorf was
so, so wrong for him. I see he was bored in Kindergarten and angry for being
sent back there. I see it never suited his personality."
Parent Sorry for Trusting Waldorf
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/368640/a-safe-healthy-haven-waldorf-questio\
ners-concerns-thread/60
I have posted about some of our experiences in this forum before so I have been
hesitating writing about them again. Just in case there are some who have not
read them, I will try to describe as quickly as I can what happened to us. Just
to save time I have pasted parts of my old posts, so sorry for the repetion for
those of you who have read my them before.
So here I go………….
My son started a Waldorf Kindergarten at age 3 ½ (at this particular school they
had the preschool and Kindergarten in one class). Because we moved he went to
another Waldorf school when he was 5 and ½.
When it was time to go to first grade, at age 6 and ½ he was unable to focus in
the classroom of 20 children. He had difficulty following the teacher's
instructions and had a hard time sitting still. Also his drawing was not the
same level as most of his peers. After a month he was deemed to be too"
immature" to stay in first grade and was sent back in Kindergarten. At the time
I did not question the decision. I trusted them.
Staying back in Kindergarten was a big mistake. My son became very unruly,
disruptive and refused to participate in the activities. In particular he hated
all the circle games and eurhythmy. All this only made the Waldorf teachers even
more convinced that my son was still not ready for first grade.
We finally got outside help and took my son to see an occupational therapist who
confirmed that he had both fine and gross motor skill delays known as dyspraxia
resulting from sensory integration problems. Sensory over stimulation also
explained why my son could not focus in the first grade classroom. It was not
because he was too immature, but because there was too much stimulation in the
Waldorf classrooms. The set up, which is rows of desks with the teacher in the
front and lots of copying from the blackboard, is not an idea setting for allot
of children.
It was one of kindergarten teachers who first suggested that my son see an
Occupational therapist. However once he started going to one she disapproved of
what the occupational therapist did. The OT usually liked to visit the schools
of the children she was treating to see how they were doing and then give the
teachers advise, but my son's teachers refused to even allow her to visit the
class room! Anyway just a few weeks before my son's 7th birthday some so called
Waldorf "expert" on children with learning problems saw him and maintained that
my son STILL was not ready to go to first grade! She (the "expert") even made
fun of the OTs report saying, "what is dyspraxia? I can't even pronounce it!"
Her only advice was that he was not incarnating properly into his body and he
would have to go to a Waldorf school for children with special needs This was
the final straw for me. I never took our son back to that kindergarten again.
We put our him in a Montessori School instead. He continued seeing the
Occupational therapist. My son made wonderful improvements. To my great relief
the Montessori teachers have had no problem getting him to learn and to follow
and do the work. Within a few months he learned to read and write, do basic
addition and subtraction. And he loved it! Everyone who knew him commented on
how much happier my son seemed after I pulled him out of the Waldorf school.
His Montessori teachers all shook their heads in disbelief over the fact that he
was held back in Kindergarten another year for they felt he was so ready to
learn!
It has been 6 months now. My son is thriving in his new school and all his
behaviour problems are improving. I am still getting used to him not being
considered a "problem" anymore! I look back and it is so clear that Waldorf was
so, so wrong for him. I see he was bored in Kindergarten and angry for being
sent back there. I see it never suited his personality.
In both the Waldorf Kindergartens and the 1st grade there was allot of
unstructured free play with not enough supervision. This was a problem for allot
of children not just my son. From the beginning now I remember parents
complaining about all the bullying going on, kids hitting and getting hit, with
the teachers either saying they were not aware of it or acting like it was not a
problem. I did not want to see it at the time, but it was always there. Waldorf
definitely brought out the "wildness" in my son and I experienced allot of
another children mostly little boys who had difficulties there as well.
So we try to move on and for the most part we have moved on. But I guess I still
keep coming back to this forum because even though everything is getting better,
I still feel anger, sadness and pain.
I feel angry with the teachers for sending my son back to Kindergarten. I feel
angry with my self for going along with it! The move back to Kindergarten really
hurt my son's self esteem and it will be a while before he will catch up
academically. This makes me sad. The Waldorf teachers really made me feel like
the worst mother in the world, like it was my entire fault he was acting up in
the classroom. That really hurt. It really hurts to have people say such
horrible things about your child.
What also hurt is that none of the other parents even bothered to call us when
we left. Afterwards when I ran into any of the parents of my son's former
Waldorf classmates they did not even want to know any thing about my son, that
the child who was once a "problem" was no longer a problem and was now thriving!
Anyway sorry for going on for so long but I really needed to get this out.
Thanks for giving me the chance to vent!
ners-concerns-thread/60
I have posted about some of our experiences in this forum before so I have been
hesitating writing about them again. Just in case there are some who have not
read them, I will try to describe as quickly as I can what happened to us. Just
to save time I have pasted parts of my old posts, so sorry for the repetion for
those of you who have read my them before.
So here I go………….
My son started a Waldorf Kindergarten at age 3 ½ (at this particular school they
had the preschool and Kindergarten in one class). Because we moved he went to
another Waldorf school when he was 5 and ½.
When it was time to go to first grade, at age 6 and ½ he was unable to focus in
the classroom of 20 children. He had difficulty following the teacher's
instructions and had a hard time sitting still. Also his drawing was not the
same level as most of his peers. After a month he was deemed to be too"
immature" to stay in first grade and was sent back in Kindergarten. At the time
I did not question the decision. I trusted them.
Staying back in Kindergarten was a big mistake. My son became very unruly,
disruptive and refused to participate in the activities. In particular he hated
all the circle games and eurhythmy. All this only made the Waldorf teachers even
more convinced that my son was still not ready for first grade.
We finally got outside help and took my son to see an occupational therapist who
confirmed that he had both fine and gross motor skill delays known as dyspraxia
resulting from sensory integration problems. Sensory over stimulation also
explained why my son could not focus in the first grade classroom. It was not
because he was too immature, but because there was too much stimulation in the
Waldorf classrooms. The set up, which is rows of desks with the teacher in the
front and lots of copying from the blackboard, is not an idea setting for allot
of children.
It was one of kindergarten teachers who first suggested that my son see an
Occupational therapist. However once he started going to one she disapproved of
what the occupational therapist did. The OT usually liked to visit the schools
of the children she was treating to see how they were doing and then give the
teachers advise, but my son's teachers refused to even allow her to visit the
class room! Anyway just a few weeks before my son's 7th birthday some so called
Waldorf "expert" on children with learning problems saw him and maintained that
my son STILL was not ready to go to first grade! She (the "expert") even made
fun of the OTs report saying, "what is dyspraxia? I can't even pronounce it!"
Her only advice was that he was not incarnating properly into his body and he
would have to go to a Waldorf school for children with special needs This was
the final straw for me. I never took our son back to that kindergarten again.
We put our him in a Montessori School instead. He continued seeing the
Occupational therapist. My son made wonderful improvements. To my great relief
the Montessori teachers have had no problem getting him to learn and to follow
and do the work. Within a few months he learned to read and write, do basic
addition and subtraction. And he loved it! Everyone who knew him commented on
how much happier my son seemed after I pulled him out of the Waldorf school.
His Montessori teachers all shook their heads in disbelief over the fact that he
was held back in Kindergarten another year for they felt he was so ready to
learn!
It has been 6 months now. My son is thriving in his new school and all his
behaviour problems are improving. I am still getting used to him not being
considered a "problem" anymore! I look back and it is so clear that Waldorf was
so, so wrong for him. I see he was bored in Kindergarten and angry for being
sent back there. I see it never suited his personality.
In both the Waldorf Kindergartens and the 1st grade there was allot of
unstructured free play with not enough supervision. This was a problem for allot
of children not just my son. From the beginning now I remember parents
complaining about all the bullying going on, kids hitting and getting hit, with
the teachers either saying they were not aware of it or acting like it was not a
problem. I did not want to see it at the time, but it was always there. Waldorf
definitely brought out the "wildness" in my son and I experienced allot of
another children mostly little boys who had difficulties there as well.
So we try to move on and for the most part we have moved on. But I guess I still
keep coming back to this forum because even though everything is getting better,
I still feel anger, sadness and pain.
I feel angry with the teachers for sending my son back to Kindergarten. I feel
angry with my self for going along with it! The move back to Kindergarten really
hurt my son's self esteem and it will be a while before he will catch up
academically. This makes me sad. The Waldorf teachers really made me feel like
the worst mother in the world, like it was my entire fault he was acting up in
the classroom. That really hurt. It really hurts to have people say such
horrible things about your child.
What also hurt is that none of the other parents even bothered to call us when
we left. Afterwards when I ran into any of the parents of my son's former
Waldorf classmates they did not even want to know any thing about my son, that
the child who was once a "problem" was no longer a problem and was now thriving!
Anyway sorry for going on for so long but I really needed to get this out.
Thanks for giving me the chance to vent!
Waldorf and ADHD
http://www.waldorfeducation.me.uk/
Three years after our family left the Waldorf school our daughter was diagnosed
with ADHD. This may explain the severity of some of her problems. The condition
makes her highly sensitive and this probably made her a magnet for bullying. It
also meant she had difficulty with concentrating and sitting still during
lessons.
However, it doesn't change her story. She may have been more vulnerable to
bullying than the average child, but the school made no attempt to resolve this,
in fact on one occasion a teacher told me that 'She asked for it.' She may have
been difficult in class, but was her teacher's response, to make her stand in
the corner for rest of the lesson, an appropriate one? The school also refused
to allow her psychiatrist to observe her in class which may have helped to get
her diagnosed. The school's opinion was always that Joanna's behaviour was
because she was emotionally disturbed because of problems in her home life.
I am now very worried that some Waldorf schools, are saying that Steiner
education is especially good for ADHD children. While I agree that the
structured day of the Kindergarten did suit Joanna well, once in Class 1 the
Steiner system, in retrospect, was most unsuitable. The 2 hour main lesson must
have seemed like torture to her.
Most importantly, my daughter was asked to leave because of her behaviour. Some
of it may well have been due to her ADHD and a lot to the reaction of the other
pupils to her ADHD and the fact that the teacher could not cope with her. I am
amazed that, in spite of this, Waldorf schools, including the one our family
attended, are claiming to be especially suited to ADHD children. At least one
other ADHD child was asked to leave this school. It seems they are not good at
coping with this special need. I would have hoped that at least they had learned
this, but it seems that is not the case.
ADHD children are particularly bad at coping with rejection. Schools should
never go out of their way to attract them unless they are as sure as they can be
of their commitment to the child and of their ability to meet their needs. The
Waldorf school Joanna attended was totally unable to meet her needs. She went on
to an ordinary village primary where they did cope. Even though she was still
undiagnosed they helped her immensely and never felt the need to blame us or to
call her emotionally disturbed.
Three years after our family left the Waldorf school our daughter was diagnosed
with ADHD. This may explain the severity of some of her problems. The condition
makes her highly sensitive and this probably made her a magnet for bullying. It
also meant she had difficulty with concentrating and sitting still during
lessons.
However, it doesn't change her story. She may have been more vulnerable to
bullying than the average child, but the school made no attempt to resolve this,
in fact on one occasion a teacher told me that 'She asked for it.' She may have
been difficult in class, but was her teacher's response, to make her stand in
the corner for rest of the lesson, an appropriate one? The school also refused
to allow her psychiatrist to observe her in class which may have helped to get
her diagnosed. The school's opinion was always that Joanna's behaviour was
because she was emotionally disturbed because of problems in her home life.
I am now very worried that some Waldorf schools, are saying that Steiner
education is especially good for ADHD children. While I agree that the
structured day of the Kindergarten did suit Joanna well, once in Class 1 the
Steiner system, in retrospect, was most unsuitable. The 2 hour main lesson must
have seemed like torture to her.
Most importantly, my daughter was asked to leave because of her behaviour. Some
of it may well have been due to her ADHD and a lot to the reaction of the other
pupils to her ADHD and the fact that the teacher could not cope with her. I am
amazed that, in spite of this, Waldorf schools, including the one our family
attended, are claiming to be especially suited to ADHD children. At least one
other ADHD child was asked to leave this school. It seems they are not good at
coping with this special need. I would have hoped that at least they had learned
this, but it seems that is not the case.
ADHD children are particularly bad at coping with rejection. Schools should
never go out of their way to attract them unless they are as sure as they can be
of their commitment to the child and of their ability to meet their needs. The
Waldorf school Joanna attended was totally unable to meet her needs. She went on
to an ordinary village primary where they did cope. Even though she was still
undiagnosed they helped her immensely and never felt the need to blame us or to
call her emotionally disturbed.
Steiner Waldorf Problems
http://www.dystalk.com/forum/general-advice-other/4659-steiner-waldorf-problems
Steiner Waldorf Problems
I found your site very useful; thanks. The help it has given us with dyslexia
and learning strategies is thoughtful, practical, and for us, invaluable.
I wasn't sure which forum to write in, as one of our children has dyslexia. My
main reason for posting is to comment on Steiner education, which is often seen
as a haven for those with dyslexia, or the not so academic because of it's so
called concentration on creativeness and craft.
Since leaving this ''community'' we've found out so much , the things the
school's PR take great trouble to cover up. Steiner Waldorf education isn't
really about giving children knowledge, arming them with a desire to question
and extend their flare for curiosity. It's about seeing them through their
''incarnation'', helping them with the ''karmic'' lessons they need in this
life, in order for them to reincarnate on a higher spiritual plane in the next.
Yes, it sounds bonkers, it is bonkers.
We thought the Steiner system would be creative, liberal and give scope for our
children's individual talents and characters; it was a disaster, rigid, boring,
copied restricted work, following frankly bizarre and dangerous beliefs. (It is
based on anthroposophy, the teachers often had no qualifications apart from
Steiner training, which is nearly all done with Steiner's work. The
educationalist David Mollet calls it brainwashing and indoctrination)
Consequently our children have taken much time and effort to catch up; dyslexia
isn't recognised except as an ''incarnation problem''. Everything is about
karma. Our youngest was encouraged to change from being left handed, and had to
do things right handed (left handedness is to do with a weakness in a past
life), children are classified by medieval ''temperaments''- melancholic,
phlegmatic etc, which, along with their race and roots, dictates how the teacher
treats them.
One of our children has had esteem problems because bullying was more or less
ignored (it is seen as karma).
After doing some research, we discovered that the same problems we had, happen
in Steiner Waldorf schools all over the world. Some of these people's
experiences can be read in the article section here.
www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles.html
http://sites.google.com/site/waldorfwatch/welcome
http://www.dystalk.com/forum/general-advice-other/4659-steiner-waldorf-problems
We withdrew our daughter from a Steiner school in class 5 ( year 6 )after her
class teacher labelled her a unwilling to cooperate. Through class 2/3 we
questioned her academic progress,we were told by her teacher and some parents
told us to trust the system and that she was doing well and was a lovely child.
A new teacher arrived in class 4 . She told us our child had multiple issues and
was terribley behaved. We know realise she has mild dyslexia and dyspraxia and
needs some specific teaching. The Steiner school did nothing but condemn our
child as the problem. They have totally betrayed our trust and loyalty.
Steiner Waldorf Problems
I found your site very useful; thanks. The help it has given us with dyslexia
and learning strategies is thoughtful, practical, and for us, invaluable.
I wasn't sure which forum to write in, as one of our children has dyslexia. My
main reason for posting is to comment on Steiner education, which is often seen
as a haven for those with dyslexia, or the not so academic because of it's so
called concentration on creativeness and craft.
Since leaving this ''community'' we've found out so much , the things the
school's PR take great trouble to cover up. Steiner Waldorf education isn't
really about giving children knowledge, arming them with a desire to question
and extend their flare for curiosity. It's about seeing them through their
''incarnation'', helping them with the ''karmic'' lessons they need in this
life, in order for them to reincarnate on a higher spiritual plane in the next.
Yes, it sounds bonkers, it is bonkers.
We thought the Steiner system would be creative, liberal and give scope for our
children's individual talents and characters; it was a disaster, rigid, boring,
copied restricted work, following frankly bizarre and dangerous beliefs. (It is
based on anthroposophy, the teachers often had no qualifications apart from
Steiner training, which is nearly all done with Steiner's work. The
educationalist David Mollet calls it brainwashing and indoctrination)
Consequently our children have taken much time and effort to catch up; dyslexia
isn't recognised except as an ''incarnation problem''. Everything is about
karma. Our youngest was encouraged to change from being left handed, and had to
do things right handed (left handedness is to do with a weakness in a past
life), children are classified by medieval ''temperaments''- melancholic,
phlegmatic etc, which, along with their race and roots, dictates how the teacher
treats them.
One of our children has had esteem problems because bullying was more or less
ignored (it is seen as karma).
After doing some research, we discovered that the same problems we had, happen
in Steiner Waldorf schools all over the world. Some of these people's
experiences can be read in the article section here.
www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles.html
http://sites.google.com/site/waldorfwatch/welcome
http://www.dystalk.com/forum/general-advice-other/4659-steiner-waldorf-problems
We withdrew our daughter from a Steiner school in class 5 ( year 6 )after her
class teacher labelled her a unwilling to cooperate. Through class 2/3 we
questioned her academic progress,we were told by her teacher and some parents
told us to trust the system and that she was doing well and was a lovely child.
A new teacher arrived in class 4 . She told us our child had multiple issues and
was terribley behaved. We know realise she has mild dyslexia and dyspraxia and
needs some specific teaching. The Steiner school did nothing but condemn our
child as the problem. They have totally betrayed our trust and loyalty.
Parent Experiences from Waldorf Watch
http://sites.google.com/site/waldorfwatch/our-experience
"Then there's the issue of pedophiles. They are everywhere and are by no means
peculiar to Waldorf schools. The problem at our school was that there were
several incidents and the teachers failed to obey the laws that protect children
from abuse."
"I continue to ponder why it all happened. How did I almost destroy my daughter
by choosing to send her to an apparently caring, art-based, beautiful small
private school? How could people who appeared to be good friends suddenly turn
on us and later forget we exist?"
"...There are those within the Anthroposophy/Waldorf movement who believe their
own public relations are less than forthright. There are some who feel as
frustrated at the deceptive marketing and misleading information as the parents
do who make the gut wrenching decision to pull children from their school. This
is not a decision parents take without much thought, sadness and trepidation. In
most cases, however, the decision simply must be made. Something is wrong. The
education the parents were sold was simply not the education their children
received. Beautiful, gentle, arts based, natural type of education has very
little in common with a spiritual movement based on the religious/occult
theories of one man and his followers."
"Unfortunately we experienced the school to be a highly religious sect with no
respect whatsoever for legal contracts, and with no continuing professional
development, and [no commitment] to what we regard to be social responsibility.
In very subtle ways, and with a mild and friendly smile, they assure you that
the children's education is in the best of hands. But, as time showed us, their
teacher-training consists exclusively of the spiritual fantasies of one single
man [i.e., Rudolf Steiner]. And having done teaching there ourselves, we found
their curriculum not comparable to what is required from the state, nor [is it
what they] claimed.
The Waldorf teachers claim that [during their lives before birth] children
choose their parents. This is not, as we believed, a lovely birthday fairy tale
to be told in the kindergarten, it is their religious belief. Literally. It took
a long time before we were able to understand why children clearly in need of
intervention by social services were not helped out of their miserable
situation, until we realized how the school neglected their legal responsibility
when other parents took action and reported directly to the authorities."
"Then there's the issue of pedophiles. They are everywhere and are by no means
peculiar to Waldorf schools. The problem at our school was that there were
several incidents and the teachers failed to obey the laws that protect children
from abuse."
"I continue to ponder why it all happened. How did I almost destroy my daughter
by choosing to send her to an apparently caring, art-based, beautiful small
private school? How could people who appeared to be good friends suddenly turn
on us and later forget we exist?"
"...There are those within the Anthroposophy/Waldorf movement who believe their
own public relations are less than forthright. There are some who feel as
frustrated at the deceptive marketing and misleading information as the parents
do who make the gut wrenching decision to pull children from their school. This
is not a decision parents take without much thought, sadness and trepidation. In
most cases, however, the decision simply must be made. Something is wrong. The
education the parents were sold was simply not the education their children
received. Beautiful, gentle, arts based, natural type of education has very
little in common with a spiritual movement based on the religious/occult
theories of one man and his followers."
"Unfortunately we experienced the school to be a highly religious sect with no
respect whatsoever for legal contracts, and with no continuing professional
development, and [no commitment] to what we regard to be social responsibility.
In very subtle ways, and with a mild and friendly smile, they assure you that
the children's education is in the best of hands. But, as time showed us, their
teacher-training consists exclusively of the spiritual fantasies of one single
man [i.e., Rudolf Steiner]. And having done teaching there ourselves, we found
their curriculum not comparable to what is required from the state, nor [is it
what they] claimed.
The Waldorf teachers claim that [during their lives before birth] children
choose their parents. This is not, as we believed, a lovely birthday fairy tale
to be told in the kindergarten, it is their religious belief. Literally. It took
a long time before we were able to understand why children clearly in need of
intervention by social services were not helped out of their miserable
situation, until we realized how the school neglected their legal responsibility
when other parents took action and reported directly to the authorities."
Saturday, May 19, 2012
Mountain Phoenix Waldorf Charter School Reviews by Parents
We enrolled our daughter at Mt. Phoenix. They promised bus
transport from Wheat Ridge to the Coal Creek Canyon Campus, we thought,
this is good. Then they told the eighth graders no ball point pens were
used & no media presentations would be used in the classroom, we
thought, that s odd. On the first day of school, there was no bus and
no notification that five students would be jammed into a teacher's
Buick, we thought, What s going on here? Then, our child and her best
friend were repeatedly bullied. The teacher and principle told us it was
my child s fault, we said, Enough! This is a little school in a
remote canyon that operates on its own set of rules. I m sorry but I
thought that when funded by tax payers, the school had to be worthy of
that support! In our opinion, Mt. Phoenix is failing in that mission.
Our child was suspended AFTER the October student count. I looked for
another school. Everything was infinitely better once we found out about
Alpine Valley School. This is best kept secret in Wheat Ridge. For us
it was the only logical choice. If you haven t considered this option,
you owe it to your child to look into this unique educational
alternative!
WORST SCHOOL EVER! We were so traumatized by our experience with this so called school. 12 people that I know of also left this school of 60. Quite a significant percentage.
I had my grandsons there, the first year, they were
wonderful and truly wanted to help them and help them become the best
they could be. The following year after a admin change, they changed
drastically. They no longer seemed to care about the children as much.
Seemed more interested in who brought the money with them. One of the
upper grads teacher actually lied to and about me and had me removed
from the games day. One of my grandson was being terribly abused and
all I heard from them was "well, you don't know the whole story" and
that was after I was on the playground for recess every day. There are
other people who feel the way I do. They are back in the public school
and are doing good. But because the education at this school was not up
to par, they are behind and the new teachers are trying and doing a good
job. I would not recommend this school.
Summerfield Waldorf School Review by a Teacher
The total lack of a comprehensive science program hurts this school. There is no coordinated physical science program.
Wednesday, May 9, 2012
La Mariposa School - Waldorf Charter - Reviews by Parents
http://www.greatschools.org/school/parentReviews.page?id=12259&state=CA#from..HeaderLink
LaMariposa's quality & academics is sporadic at best. There are
superb teachers there; however, there are several that are below
average at best. The principal's leadership style, devotion to students,
and desire to improve academics is poor to below average. The several
superb teachers carry the school's reputation.
Desert Sky Community School - Waldorf Charter - Reviews by Parents
http://www.greatschools.org/arizona/tucson/3556-Desert-Sky-Community-School/
Posted on Dec 18, 2010
It's interesting how every school review site has an excellent review on this school by parent E... S.. who also happens to be the principal and school founder. Just saying ...
Posted on Dec 18, 2010
It's interesting how every school review site has an excellent review on this school by parent E... S.. who also happens to be the principal and school founder. Just saying ...
Portland Village School - Waldorf Charter - Reviews by Parents
http://www.greatschools.org/school/parentReviews.page?id=2971&state=OR#from..HeaderLink
The parent reviews sum up this school well. For those
that value alternative Waldorf methods and community, no homework, do
not mind the no media at school and home policy (no TV, Movies,
computers and images on clothing/lunchboxes/backpacks), this is a great
school. For those that value academics, discipline, learning about
technology, and enabling your child to have things in common with and be
comfortable relating to kids outside the small Waldorf community, this
is not the school for you. For example of the latter, attending a
friend's birthday party at Chuck'E'Cheezes is not in keeping with the
School's Waldorf methods. Also, be sure to check the School's report
card on the Oregon Department of Education Website. I found the
School's performance claims to be inaccurate.
The school is disorganized. Teaching methods do not allow for
different learning styles. They give lip service to Gardner's Multiple
Intelligences framework. Teachers halt all teaching of main lesson to
practice for a play...for 3-4 weeks. Kids with learning disabilities are
not well supported. Teachers are unwilling to change the Waldorf method
in order to accomodate special needs. And the school does not celebrate
diversity of thought, of cultures, etc. So, if you are of European
descent (white) and have children without learning
challenges/disabilities, you'll love this school. You can never question
the teaching method, because it is always the student who is "behind in
some developmental skill". They'll prescribe house chores, mid-line
exercises, etc. to enhance the child's learning capabilites. The teacher
has NOTHING to change. The onus is always on the child. The school is a
great fit if you are from Portland, of European descent (white) and
your children do not have learning disabilities.
Very slow track methods for learning and super old school in regards to their philosophy, of course, Waldorf. This school will be a challenge for the modern child and the gifted.
This school might work for you if 1) you don't
care much whether your child learns anything, 2) you have a very high
tolerance for discipline issues and a very disorganized and
unprofessional discipline response, 3) you don't mind rampant flakiness
such as the staff (even the administration!) not following written
policies, 4) you don't mind whether your small child is properly
supervised, 5) you can tolerate inconsistent and unprofessional
communication styles from the staff. This school is a nightmare. Run!
The school does not focus much attention on academics and does not have the support or ability to work with children of different learning styles and needs!
Desert Star Community School - Waldorf Charter - Reviews by Parents
http://www.greatschools.org/school/parentReviews.page?id=3566&state=AZ#from..HeaderLink
Desert Star has many pros and cons. If your main
interest is knowing that school will be fun place for your kids. This
is a good school. There does seem to be a lot of emphasis on
extracurricular activities such as knitting, gardening, field trips,
painting and drawing, mixed with a bit of music. However, it is
lacking in the basic curriculum in regards to reading, writing, and
math. There are no text books for each child and most of the work that
is handed out is hand-printed. In two years, my child has not had one
spelling test nor has spelling been taught as a class in and of itself.
There also seems to be a lack of clear organization and direction. I
would have to honestly say that if one's priority is in learning the
basic educational curriculum, then this will not be the school for you.
However, if one's priority is that your child thinks that school is fun
and that people are nice and, if that is good enough for you, you will
more than likely like this school very much.
Desert Marigold Charter School - Reviews by Parents and Students
My children attended DMS for many years. The campus is
beautiful and the waldorf curriculum is fantastic. However, it seems to
be filled with empty promises and lack of follow through. They preach
alot of collaboration and community, however, the adults in the
community, especially the administration and faculty have alot of
growing up to do. They shirk away from any type of conflict, try to
ignore it and as a result many families leave after years of trying to
work in their 'collaborative community' model. They are not interested
in what the parents want, they simply want to push their own personal
agendas. I want a school that walks their own talk!!
I was disgruntled for five years. For five years I
thought those people at Desert Marigold were not meeting my children's
needs. This past year a teacher reprimanded me for taking my child home
early. What nerve. Now my children are at different schools. I feel
they are conforming more, and meet the state standards for education.
Still, I am beginning to wonder if there is more to life than meeting
these standards and I wish I had found a way to work out my differences
with the administration at Desert Marigold.
If you are looking for a true Waldorf education, you
will not find it here. There is a loose use of the Waldorf methods,
when they are used at all. I found my children received more of a
waldorf style of education by enrolling them in a traditional public
school. The head administrator is also painfully absent from all of the
daily activities. My advice would be to look elsewhere.
I had my children in DMS for 4 years and
every year it became more and more disappointing. I tried to remain
hopeful because I believe in the Waldorf philosophy of child development
and education, but that is not what is being offered at DMS. My
children made great friends while at DMS, but when we left and entered a
more traditional school system I realized how ill equipped they were
academically. When I think back on how situations concerning my children
and myself were handled, I am angry at myself for keeping the children
in such a dysfunctional environment. My advice is to proceed with
caution.
During the time 5 years that my children attended DMS,
the quality of education decreased drastically. There was an issue
with one of my children and the teacher involved & administration
where not very professional.
We placed our son into DMS 6 years ago as
an alternative to public school. Though I do believe he thrived
psychologically from the waldorf principles taught at DMS we felt the
academics were sorely lacking. We placed our younger son in DMS 3 years
ago and while his math skills seemed adequate he was not taught to
read. The administrator at this school is rarely seen and obviously
cares little about meeting the state standards in academics. The
communication between teachers and parents is completely lacking except
if the teachers need volunteers or fund raising.
I went to Desert Marigold for middle school. After graduating
from 8th grade I went to a regular public high school. I felt really
behind academically from the other kids. I made some great friends at
Desert Marigold but I really wish I had gone to a regular middle school.
Desert Marigold has good extracurricular activities such as
sewing,gardening,and art but, they lack academics especially math. I
wouldn't suggest sending your child to the middle school.
This school needs to chose quality teachers that really care
about the education they are trying to get across to the children. We
have been at this school for 6 yrs. Its great for younger children the
upper grades very disappointing.
We have attended DMS for the past 5 years and
are leaving disappointmented in a program of education that we believe,
when done right, offers the best education for a child. I urge anyone
who is interested in this school to request the right to observe the
teacher and classroom their child will be joining. Lack of discipline,
educated teachers and classroom management skills is a problem in many
of the grades. If you encounter problems do not expect a resolution,
from administration or faculty, in a timely or satisfactory manner. I
admire what this school is trying to offer but if they are to move
forward and become a model for charter Waldorf schools they need to
start taking decisive action towards removing administrative and faculty
members that are not advancing the growth of the school. Unfortunately
that means making difficult decisions that are not made entirely with
the heart.
Instruction in the arts is varied and adequate, instruction in
math, reading and writing is mediocre to poor. If you choose this
school be prepared to supplement your child's core academics. In the 6
years that I have been associated with Desert Marigold I only remain
hopeful, not convinced, that this school can provide sound educational
opportunities for children. We will not return next year.
My child and I were greatly disappointed with this school.It
seems to pay more attention to Mythical objects and Faerie Tales even
up into the higher grades. My child said that she felt like she wasn't
learning anything.
I have had my child at DMS since 3rd grade.
The academics scores have plummeted since entering middle school. The
administrator is rarely in the classroom and does not do much to help
the children who are failing. I feel since my child has entered 6th
grade she has been let down and is now far behind state standards. My
child will be attending DMS next year do to the lack of academics needs.
This school lacks academics. It's arts are fairly good but
the academics are very poor. Such basics such as math,reading,and
writing are taught terribly or bearly taught . Especially the middle
school lacks academics. I am glad to say I am taking my child out. If
you seek academic success this school is not for you.
The Waldorf Education system is wonderful, but administration at this
school lacks the business know how to execute it fully. The school has
great potential, the campus and teachers are very special, but the
quality of education for each child is hit and miss. This is due to
administrative issues - specifically, their lack of support for
teachers, parents, and supplies/tools needed in classrooms. More
organization within administration would help bridge this gap, plus if
administrative staff had more business experience in running the school,
the program would improve. Finally, the director needs to be more
connected and active within this school - specifically by making making
rounds and seeing firsthand how each class is doing and taking active
steps to improve existing problems. Overall the school has some great
qualities, but if you are seeking a consistent education for your child,
research this school carefully before enrolling.
I love the lack of concrete, the trees, the garden
and wide open spaces. I love the idea of this school. However, there
is a definite lack of discipline in the upper elementary grades. The
good things about the school are about breaking even now with the
negatives. I don't know if I'll put my child in for next year. But it
has so much potential it is heartbreaking.
This school reminds me of the dark ages, long ankle
length dresses and all the students are all sang their instructions. My
child did not learn anything in the 6 months he attended.
The strengths of the school are a Waldorf inspired philosophy
and curriculum, and the high level of parent involvement. A nice plus
is the farm setting. Overall, the children are allowed to be kids, and
are treated as divine souls worthy of the utmost respect. However, the
school lacks leadership, a more reliable discipline structure, and a
more consistent and experienced staff. It is great for the little ones;
I have some concern for the older grades. If you want your middle
schooler to be prepared for an Ivy League, keep looking.
We've been with DMS since my child was 18 mos,
for playgroup and preschool. The arts, spiritual, & physical
aspects of the child are nurtured well, and there is a lot of love. But
the school is run by the teachers, an eclectic group who all have
strengths but some severe shortcomings which strongly sway campus life.
The campus is beautiful; the community of parents, the lack of
commercialism, the organic environment, and the nurturing of the child
as a strong and free being are why we came. The abstract, overly right
brained processes are why we are leaving. I feel our daughter has done
well, but is not challenged. She comes home and wants to do traditional
schoolwork. As a preschooler it helped her grow into her body
comfortably, but her mind is left wandering. Lack of social structure
and discipline has often upset her. We'll miss the parents.
by a parent
Friday, June 04, 2010
Friday, June 04, 2010
My
Children have been attending DMS "desert marigold school" for 3 years,
in that time my children have been in grades: kindergarten, first,
second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth, and ninthPROS
more accepting of developmentally delayed children
emotionally supportive
lovely campus (this is the best and only thing significantly positive thing about DMS)
CONS
over 90% of the student body is intellectually or emotionally disabled (the healthy students leave)
no advanced classes (the good teachers usually leave within a year)
no average classes (there is literally a basket weaving class for high school)
poor teaching
special ed school
some verbal bullies
Here are two samples of their standardized test scores:
In 2009 the third grade had a 23 percent passing rate, sixth grade had a 36 percent passing rate; 60% to 80% of all students in these grades are failing to pass the bare minimum standards set by the state. These students are failing miserably.
Now compare these numbers with a school that has good teachers, I have found that teachers are the most critical factor, a great teacher with a bad administration still teaches well.
For 2009 every grade at Basis had a 97% or higher passing rate, you can't even begin to compare the top scores of desert marigold vs Basis, its like comparing monkeys with humans.
Some other considerations:
While visiting school in 2010 I found drug paraphernalia (a joint and papers) in the bathroom
My average ability child was the top student in his class
Teachers are supposed to teach the same students from first through eighth grade but it rarely happens
Do not do what I did and waste your children’s precious formative years with a school like DMS, try schools that have much higher quality teachers and students, here is a list of the top schools:
http://phoenix.about.com/library/blschoolscharter.htm
For example:
Villa Montessori - Phoenix Campus
Great Hearts
Tempe Prepatory Academy
If you have a child that is severely disabled: autism, chemical abuse, aspergers, and functioning at 2 or more grades below level, then DMS may be a great fit, but if you have an average or above average child, you will be harming them by sending them to desert marigold school.
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