Pasadena is another problematic private Waldorf school which is the recipient of
problematic teachers from Highland Hall.
http://www.greatschools.org/school/parentReviews.page?id=9839&state=CA#from..Hea\
derLink
Posted April 30, 2009
Pasadena Waldorf School has a fairy tale approach to life and does not prepare
children for the real world. The school's administration has no oversight and
teachers are free to instruct and discipline children any way they see fit. My
children had to be tutored after leaving Waldorf just to catch up with
mainstream society. The campus is beautiful and the ideals are romantic. The
story telling and performances are fun but do not begin to educate children in
today's complex world. There are some valuable lessons being taught, but negated
by the fact that a child cannot write correctly or spell. There is no test
taking and no monitoring of the educational process. Waldorf creates it's own
rules and changes them on a whim. I would not recommend this school to anyone
who takes their child's education seriously.
—Submitted by a parent
Posted November 16, 2007
The intentions are good, but it falls far short of it's goals.
—Submitted by a parent
Posted April 25, 2007
I am not sure the Waldorf model works in today's multicultural environment.
Having the same teacher from K-8 sounds romantic but it is rare to find an
individual with a skill set that can meet a child's needs over 9 years of
education. Parental involvement is very high and the atmosphere is nurturing. I
would not recommend a Waldorf Education unless you are prepared to supplement
your child's education w/ tutors and other outlets for both academic and
sporting activities. —Submitted by a parent
Posted February 1, 2007
After having my daughter at this school for 5 years, I pulled her out. They have
lost most of their good teachers and there is no oversight on poor performing
teachers. We most definitely would not recommend it for a quality educaton.
—Submitted by a parent
Showing posts with label waldorf. Show all posts
Showing posts with label waldorf. Show all posts
Sunday, April 29, 2012
Golden Valley Charter School Reviews - by Parents
Golden Valley Charter School of Orangevale is another Waldorf charter. As with
any Waldorf school, the 5-star reviews are typically teachers and administrators
submitting brochure-like reviews. The second comment even indicates that the
school PRESSURES parents to write good reviews. THIS IS SHAMEFUL AND
FRAUDULENT. For a REAL look at what's happening, one must look at the negative
reviews - and even then, Waldorf schools tend to flag negative reviews for
removal (as we've seen from previous posts). When we look at the negative
reviews, we hear the SAME STORY over and over again, regardless of which Waldorf
school is being reviewed. Is this surprising to anyone?
Posted May 26, 2011
School is a good choice for the early grades (maybe K-3), as it allows the kids
to have significant play time without excessive (any?) homework. After that the
benefits diminish rapidly in my view and do not compare with what is offered in
other traditional schools, as reflected in test scores, etc. I do believe the
seriously negative comment a couple earlier than mine. The school does have
tremendous parental involvement, but not all of it is positive.
—Submitted by a parent
Posted May 4, 2011
Our families 3 year experience has been awful.The school principal has been cold
unapproachable and somewhat unattached from reality and the day to day running
of the school.She has no idea what any of the names of the children are or who
the families they belong to.The administration office constantly loses paperwork
and does not seem to have any concept as to what public school professionalism
is.The principal is rarely on campus and when she is her focus is driving parent
volunteers and families away. The culture of the school is unfriendly and
caustic.Volunteering at Golden Valley is like swimming in shark infested waters.
The self imposed leaders of the volunteers are cruel hostile cyber&real time
bullies who will destroy your childs educational experience as well as your
volunteering opportunities thru intimidation and rejection. The parental
behavior is modeled to their children who will bully the children of bullied
parents. Teachers openly bullying children in class encouraging classmates to
also reject vulnerable children.Parental pressure to write positive comments on
this site overwhelming and stressful.If anyone ever voices concerns or questions
they are forced out.
—Submitted by a parent
Posted April 7, 2010
My child has been at Golden Valley School for 6 years and we are leaving because
he can barely read and is well below grade level. They promised a foreign
language and then cut it for the upper grades.They spend more money on office
staff than on teachers.
—Submitted by a parent
Posted February 9, 2009
Terrible school! No homework no afterschool activities.. This is a gloraffied
daycare.. —Submitted by a parent
any Waldorf school, the 5-star reviews are typically teachers and administrators
submitting brochure-like reviews. The second comment even indicates that the
school PRESSURES parents to write good reviews. THIS IS SHAMEFUL AND
FRAUDULENT. For a REAL look at what's happening, one must look at the negative
reviews - and even then, Waldorf schools tend to flag negative reviews for
removal (as we've seen from previous posts). When we look at the negative
reviews, we hear the SAME STORY over and over again, regardless of which Waldorf
school is being reviewed. Is this surprising to anyone?
Posted May 26, 2011
School is a good choice for the early grades (maybe K-3), as it allows the kids
to have significant play time without excessive (any?) homework. After that the
benefits diminish rapidly in my view and do not compare with what is offered in
other traditional schools, as reflected in test scores, etc. I do believe the
seriously negative comment a couple earlier than mine. The school does have
tremendous parental involvement, but not all of it is positive.
—Submitted by a parent
Posted May 4, 2011
Our families 3 year experience has been awful.The school principal has been cold
unapproachable and somewhat unattached from reality and the day to day running
of the school.She has no idea what any of the names of the children are or who
the families they belong to.The administration office constantly loses paperwork
and does not seem to have any concept as to what public school professionalism
is.The principal is rarely on campus and when she is her focus is driving parent
volunteers and families away. The culture of the school is unfriendly and
caustic.Volunteering at Golden Valley is like swimming in shark infested waters.
The self imposed leaders of the volunteers are cruel hostile cyber&real time
bullies who will destroy your childs educational experience as well as your
volunteering opportunities thru intimidation and rejection. The parental
behavior is modeled to their children who will bully the children of bullied
parents. Teachers openly bullying children in class encouraging classmates to
also reject vulnerable children.Parental pressure to write positive comments on
this site overwhelming and stressful.If anyone ever voices concerns or questions
they are forced out.
—Submitted by a parent
Posted April 7, 2010
My child has been at Golden Valley School for 6 years and we are leaving because
he can barely read and is well below grade level. They promised a foreign
language and then cut it for the upper grades.They spend more money on office
staff than on teachers.
—Submitted by a parent
Posted February 9, 2009
Terrible school! No homework no afterschool activities.. This is a gloraffied
daycare.. —Submitted by a parent
Thursday, April 26, 2012
Carrie Ashby - Emails
Carrie Ashby was my daughter's Godmother before she relieved herself of the responsibility. The following email exchange displays MANY problems at Highland Hall.
From: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 9:27:20 AM
Subject: Over and Out
From: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 9:27:20 AM
Subject: Over and Out
Carrie,
You were my last hope for a contact at Highland Hall who might display some integrity. This last bit of silence while {daughter} was MISSING confirms your Anthroposophical pedigree for me.
Good luck to you.
Pete
You were my last hope for a contact at Highland Hall who might display some integrity. This last bit of silence while {daughter} was MISSING confirms your Anthroposophical pedigree for me.
Good luck to you.
Pete
From: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 6:55:10 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 6:55:10 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Pete,
I know you are upset but there are some things I cannot do and at this point, I don't know what you need.
Let me know if there is something I can do but recognize that there are things I can't do.
Thinking of you and your family.
Carrie
From: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 7:50:07 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 9:08:10 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 7:50:07 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Not
upset Carrie... I'm very rational about this stuff. You are being
dishonest with me and guarding what you tell me. That wastes time I
could be using for something else. If you tried to find out where {daughter} is, as you say, it means you knew she was missing and didn't tell
me. So you're not understanding that {daughter} needs to be helped
immediately - without regard to her personal preferences or rights.
You're not very useful as far as information goes... so basically, you
couldn't be less helpful if you were doing this intentionally - and I
believe you are.
Have you put up even ONE poster? How about taking one and xeroxing some for me... even local merchants are willing to produce them for free... How about xeroxing them at Highland Hall? That would save me some time and money... even if I still have to put them up myself. That's something you CAN do, right?
Please don't bother contacting me with more of this nonsense.
Good luck to you, Angela, Jim and the rest of your ilk...
Pete
Have you put up even ONE poster? How about taking one and xeroxing some for me... even local merchants are willing to produce them for free... How about xeroxing them at Highland Hall? That would save me some time and money... even if I still have to put them up myself. That's something you CAN do, right?
Or would you get fired at Highland Hall for putting up posters to
help find a missing child? The team effort is to tear them down.
Please don't bother contacting me with more of this nonsense.
Good luck to you, Angela, Jim and the rest of your ilk...
Pete
From: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 8:14:49 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
From: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 8:14:49 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Pete,
Happy to put up posters. Happy to xerox them for you. Have I been
dishonest with you -no. What is your problem? Stop making me feel like
shit. I have told you I do not know where she is. I am NOT hiding
anything from you. I am not part of the team effort to take the posters
down. Get a grip and recognize that I am not your enemy., and this is
not about the adults. Stop making me feel like shit.
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 9:08:10 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Carrie, I really don't care if you feel like shit.
Some woman at Highland Hall, who was pulling down Missing posters - screamed out crap about my daughter's relationship to me - called me a psycho at the top of her lungs - in front of your school... and then followed me to Devonshire Division to defend her right to do it... and to file a complaint against ME. Does my email make you feel like shit Carrie?
How DARE you say this is not about the adults.
This is about a negligent parent who lied to the other
parent AND the courts in order to allow {daughter} to do whatever she
pleased with whomever she pleased.
This is about the partner of that parent who witnessed and was accomplice to this - who RUNS A SCHOOL THAT PULLS DOWN MISSING POSTERS.
It's about wacko adults who are assisting Angela to present {daughter} to an ADULT man.
Is it {daughter}'s "karma" to have this? Does YOUR belief system allow her to be sacrificed like this? Are you not one of the same monsters that allowed this to happen to my daughter - over the past decade? The answer is YES, you are (the enemy).
HAVE YOU PUT UP EVEN ONE POSTER TO HELP FIND {DAUGHTER} - SO FAR? Do you want her found Carrie?
Even with what I've been going through these past two years - I'm the parent who raised the two kids who aren't out of control... When {daughter} needed me most, Angela put a restraining order on me. YOU figure out what's right Carrie, then get back to me. NO BULLSHIT!
Like I said, I don't need your help...
Hope that helps.
Pete
Some woman at Highland Hall, who was pulling down Missing posters - screamed out crap about my daughter's relationship to me - called me a psycho at the top of her lungs - in front of your school... and then followed me to Devonshire Division to defend her right to do it... and to file a complaint against ME. Does my email make you feel like shit Carrie?
How DARE you say this is not about the adults.
This is about the partner of that parent who witnessed and was accomplice to this - who RUNS A SCHOOL THAT PULLS DOWN MISSING POSTERS.
It's about wacko adults who are assisting Angela to present {daughter} to an ADULT man.
Is it {daughter}'s "karma" to have this? Does YOUR belief system allow her to be sacrificed like this? Are you not one of the same monsters that allowed this to happen to my daughter - over the past decade? The answer is YES, you are (the enemy).
HAVE YOU PUT UP EVEN ONE POSTER TO HELP FIND {DAUGHTER} - SO FAR? Do you want her found Carrie?
Even with what I've been going through these past two years - I'm the parent who raised the two kids who aren't out of control... When {daughter} needed me most, Angela put a restraining order on me. YOU figure out what's right Carrie, then get back to me. NO BULLSHIT!
Like I said, I don't need your help...
Hope that helps.
Pete
From: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 6:32:53 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 6:32:53 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Pete, I just re-read your last emails. Are you saying that Angela knows where {daughter} is?
cARRIE
From: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 7:25:51 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 7:25:51 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Carrie,
I couldn't care less at this point if Angela knows where {daughter} is. She and Jim have permitted {daughter} to escape. When phone records are checked, we will find out how deeply Angela and Jim are involved in this.
BUT, there is new information today - I'm pretty sure I know where {daughter} is Carrie. I'm working with the detectives - something could happen tonight or in the early morning. My hope is to get her in custody before the 15th when Bailey either faces me in court or skips town with her. We are on a deadline here and there is NO time to waste... I don't think Mark Bailey wants to go into a courtroom with me.
Thank you. Putting up fliers would be of great help. The people at the school who have been ripping them down are about to get some media attention, BTW. The dummies at Highland Hall are helping to kill {daughter}. I tried to warn Hasib but he wouldn't listen or even respond. I feel sorry for the families that just wanted an education. Highland Hall is suffering over this, and rightly so... Even the police are starting to see what wackos some of these people are. I heard a mom making a 911call because I was "frightening the children" while putting up Missing Child posters around the school yesterday. Is anyone thinking the police are taking any of that seriously? If anything, they see something seriously wrong with the entire environment. If I see that you are really serious about putting up fliers, then I'll consider you might be serious about helping {daughter} in other ways after she is in custody... maybe you could supervise visitation for Angela or something. Keeping posters up is important in that it exposes both {daughter} and Bailey when they tear them down. People notice when they do this.
One more thing you could do to take some strain off me... I'm very concerned that Highland Hall will try to expel Christopher in order to defend Jim Pedroja. They've done this with {daughter} for Mrs. Leonard in the past. Chris didn't do anything to anyone there. They should leave him out of it. Can you please see that they don't take that action. I know it sounds wacky to anyone normal... but I know you know what I'm talking about. It's what they do. And, if they would sacrifice {daughter} over protecting Jim and Angela, I don't see how Chris is safe. Thanks.
I couldn't care less at this point if Angela knows where {daughter} is. She and Jim have permitted {daughter} to escape. When phone records are checked, we will find out how deeply Angela and Jim are involved in this.
BUT, there is new information today - I'm pretty sure I know where {daughter} is Carrie. I'm working with the detectives - something could happen tonight or in the early morning. My hope is to get her in custody before the 15th when Bailey either faces me in court or skips town with her. We are on a deadline here and there is NO time to waste... I don't think Mark Bailey wants to go into a courtroom with me.
Thank you. Putting up fliers would be of great help. The people at the school who have been ripping them down are about to get some media attention, BTW. The dummies at Highland Hall are helping to kill {daughter}. I tried to warn Hasib but he wouldn't listen or even respond. I feel sorry for the families that just wanted an education. Highland Hall is suffering over this, and rightly so... Even the police are starting to see what wackos some of these people are. I heard a mom making a 911call because I was "frightening the children" while putting up Missing Child posters around the school yesterday. Is anyone thinking the police are taking any of that seriously? If anything, they see something seriously wrong with the entire environment. If I see that you are really serious about putting up fliers, then I'll consider you might be serious about helping {daughter} in other ways after she is in custody... maybe you could supervise visitation for Angela or something. Keeping posters up is important in that it exposes both {daughter} and Bailey when they tear them down. People notice when they do this.
One more thing you could do to take some strain off me... I'm very concerned that Highland Hall will try to expel Christopher in order to defend Jim Pedroja. They've done this with {daughter} for Mrs. Leonard in the past. Chris didn't do anything to anyone there. They should leave him out of it. Can you please see that they don't take that action. I know it sounds wacky to anyone normal... but I know you know what I'm talking about. It's what they do. And, if they would sacrifice {daughter} over protecting Jim and Angela, I don't see how Chris is safe. Thanks.
Pete
From: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 7:51:49 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 7:51:49 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Just responding to stuff about Chris right now, what I
hear is that he is in a good place. Call Merrily if you like,I just talked to her. He is doing fine, as far as I know, the highschool is helping him with college and it's all good but call Merrily,for the latest, she will probably appreciate it.
hear is that he is in a good place. Call Merrily if you like,I just talked to her. He is doing fine, as far as I know, the highschool is helping him with college and it's all good but call Merrily,for the latest, she will probably appreciate it.
If you need help with this, I am happy to assist.
Carrie
From: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 8:00:21 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 8:00:21 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
I'm not worried about his grades - or him failing... I'm worried he
will be expelled out of spite. They do this sort of thing. It's like
when you put Chris' class in jeopardy over my internet activities... one
doesn't have to follow the other with Highland Hall. {daughter} was
expelled because I wasn't following the communication protocol... so
again, I'm concerned about the mentality of the people at Highland Hall -
not Chris.
Hope that helps.
Pete
Hope that helps.
Pete
From: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 8:16:13 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 8:16:13 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Pete,
As I said, talk to Merrily, I did, and the spite factor was not an issue. I mean it.
From: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 8:22:35 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Merrily should have nothing against me. I'm not the one who caused her problems.
Pete
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 8:22:35 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
Wait... are you talking about the time Chris was expelled? Last year?
Yes, I assumed Chris brought that on when Merrily expelled him... I didn't mention that time. I mentioned the times when spite WAS the issue and reason for {daughter} being expelled and Chris' class being allowed to hitchhike.
Yes, I assumed Chris brought that on when Merrily expelled him... I didn't mention that time. I mentioned the times when spite WAS the issue and reason for {daughter} being expelled and Chris' class being allowed to hitchhike.
Merrily should have nothing against me. I'm not the one who caused her problems.
Pete
From: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 8:39:14 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
From: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 9:18: PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
I'd really like an answer to this... WHY should I mend my fences with Merrily or Stephen? When you say NOW, are you suggesting things might change for Chris if I don't "mend my fences"?
That sounds like a threat Carrie.
Aren't we past the bullshit yet?
To: Pete Karaiskos <pkcompany@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 8:39:14 PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
No,
I am talking about now. You are the parent, deal with this. Chris, as
far as I know, is doing ok NOW and the school is helping hinm with
college stuff
NOW and maybe you want to mend fences with Merrily NOW.
NOW and maybe you want to mend fences with Merrily NOW.
Chris is fine with the school. The school is fine with Chris, as
far as I know but you are the dad, deal with it. CALL Merrily or
Stephen.
Mend your fences.
To: carrie ashby <carrieashby@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 9:18: PM
Subject: Re: Over and Out
I'd really like an answer to this... WHY should I mend my fences with Merrily or Stephen? When you say NOW, are you suggesting things might change for Chris if I don't "mend my fences"?
That sounds like a threat Carrie.
Aren't we past the bullshit yet?
FOR THE RECORD, NOBODY AT HIGHLAND HALL HELPED AT ALL - NOT ONE PERSON THERE LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP FIND A MISSING CHILD... AND MANY WENT TO GREAT EFFORT TO ENSURE SHE WASN'T FOUND!
Sunday, January 8, 2012
Pharyngula
Quacks everywhere
John Stumbles says:
#177 Margaret SachsOK, so am I understanding correctly that you’re telling me Steiner-Waldorf schools are brainwashing children into believing that science is defective as a way of understanding the world and believing in Anthroposophy?
I assuming you’re not asking me to take this on faith, so let’s test your hypothesis. I know of a dozen or more ex-Steiner school pupils, in their late teens/early 20s, who I could contact via email or facebook; and some current pre-teen pupils. What can I do, e.g. what questions can I ask them, to verify what you’re saying?
Pete K says:
John,Ask them what they think about the future of technology. Do they think the technology and science of the 21st century will bring fantastic breakthroughs and discoveries that will benefit all mankind? Or do they, instead, believe that the technology of the future will be more Orwellian… Big Brother invading our privacy, challenging our freedoms… stuff like that? Test their personal relationship to technology.
John Stumbles says:
Ah, PeteK! Wondered where you’d got to ; – )Are you claiming that a pessimistic view of the way science and technology will be exploited by society is a characteristic of Anthroposophically educated people and that everyone else is optimistic about it? Was Eric Blair a Steiner pupil?!
I’m trying to find questions that will elicit characteristic *differences* between Steiner and non-Steiner-educated pupils that would test Margaret Sachs’ hypothesis. I’ve been trying to think of some, and I do have some ideas, though obvious ones like beliefs in supernatural are complicated by parents’ beliefs, so one would probably want to query parents too (which I can do in many cases). But even if you have generally woo-ey but not specifically Anthroposophical parents (I know some) there should be some markers of the specifically Anthroposophical brainwashing Sachs is claiming.
Pete_K says:
#181- John Stumbles said: “Are you claiming that a pessimistic view of the way science and technology will be exploited by society is a characteristic of Anthroposophically educated people”YES – Waldorf people have an expressed disdain for technology. Read any Waldorf website.
“and that everyone else is optimistic about it?”
NO, but let’s see if you can find a Waldorf grad who is optimistic about it. ;)
I think it’s a good question to ask Waldorf grads… not just you John, but anyone who wants to see what is being expressed to the students. Technology is “evil” in Waldorf… and that comes through in their science classes.
Tuesday, January 3, 2012
NY Times Education Section
School, Unplugged
Here's where my long rebuttal to the original NY Times article ended up.
Waldorf education isn’t exactly forthcoming about what they teach children and the real reasons why – and the subject requires very serious research.
Waldorf teachers tend to be very nice people who self-proclaim themselves to be experts in child development. There is no basis for this, which is easy to
verify if one cares to. Their self-confidence is possibly why so many people simply trust their children to them. The less time parents actually have to research Waldorf, the more likely they will be taken in by the Waldorf hype.
Busy executives believing they are getting a benign arts-based education for their children are, unfortunately, participating in something VERY different.
So, what EXACTLY is Waldorf education? And what have the Silicon Valley executives signed their kids up for? If their children are taking in Waldorf curriculum – “in through the heart, out through the mind” – what EXACTLY is
going IN?
Waldorf education is the missionary arm of Anthroposophy – a quasi-religious movement based on the clairvoyant visions of a single man – Rudolf Steiner. Rudolf Steiner was a mystic who lived around the turn of the century. He wrote what has been compiled into over 40 books and gave over 6000 lectures. His body of work is essentially what represents Waldorf teacher training. In other
words, the “special” training Waldorf teachers get that makes them “experts” in child development is nothing more than Rudolf Steiner’s clairvoyant musings.
So, it’s pretty important to know what Steiner had to say… not just in general, but specifically to Waldorf teachers. Here are a few gems that Steiner told Waldorf teachers directly… this is part of Waldorf teacher training
curriculum:
“The task of Anthroposophy is not simply to replace a false view of the world with a correct one…The task is to raise the spirit-soul into the realm of the spiritual, so that the human being is no longer a thinking and feeling
automaton…The human being is…in danger of drifting into the Ahrimanic world, in which case the spirit-soul will evaporate into the cosmos.” (FACULTY MEETINGS
WITH RUDOLF STEINER, p. 115.)
In fact, “Faculty Meetings with Rudolf Steiner” (goes by many names, “Conferences with Teachers”, should be required reading for parents (it’s required reading for teachers after all…) And, thanks to the internet,
parents can read it on-line here: http://www.waldorflibrary.org/pg/focusSearch/focusSearch.asp?keywordType=general\
&keywordValue=Faculty%20Meetings%20with%20Rudolf%20Steiner%20%20-Volume%201%20an\
d%202%20-%20Online%20eBook&showItem=1&ResourceID=685
Steiner says, among other things:
That “children are born with a human form, but are not really human beings…” and can be, in fact, DEMONS. (ibid pp649-650)
“With the students, we should at least try to…make it clear that, for instance, an island like Great Britain swims in the sea and is held fast by the forces of the stars. In actuality, such islands do not sit directly upon a foundation; they swim and are held fast from outside.” (ibid p607)
“It is not that the planets move around the Sun, but these three, Mercury, Venus, and the Earth, follow the Sun, and these three, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, precede it.” (ibid pp30-31)
“For the seventh, eighth, and ninth grade independent religious instruction we could move into a freer form and give a theoretical explanation about such things as life before birth and after death.” (ibid p184).
Again, this is all required reading for Waldorf teachers. Waldorf teachers are also required to read Steiner’s race theories. Steiner believed people incarnate into “higher” or “lower” races, that some races are “degenerate” and
that one race, the “white race, is the race of the future”. (Rudolf Steiner, “Farbe und Menschenrassen”, lecture in Dornach March 3, 1923, in Steiner, Vom
Leben des Menschen und der Erde, Dornach 1993, p. 67)
Steiner is Waldorf’s “guru” – and his ideas are indeed the basis of Waldorf education, training and curriculum. Unfortunately, his racist ideas come out in the curriculum – just like his other ides do. It is a fact that my son was
taught as part of physiology class at Highland Hall Waldorf school in Southern California, that “the blood of people in Europe is more `evolved’ than the blood of people from Asia and Africa”. When I questioned this lesson plan, several conferences ensued in which the school DEFENDED the lesson plan. So this wasn’t one wacky teacher teaching something silly – it is what Waldorf teachers are taught, AND it is what they teach.
When I enrolled my kids in Waldorf, nearly 20 years ago, it wasn’t very easy to get good information about what Waldorf is. Today, we have access to testimony after testimony of parents who have discovered for themselves the problems in Waldorf education.
Thanks you – to the Silicon Valley elitists who put their kids in Waldorf! Thanks to them, parents can now find this information out on their own, with very little effort. Unfortunately, it may require the use of the internet.
Pete Karaiskos
20 year Waldorf parent, critic, advocate
http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/
— Pete Karaiskos
Waldorf teachers tend to be very nice people who self-proclaim themselves to be experts in child development. There is no basis for this, which is easy to
verify if one cares to. Their self-confidence is possibly why so many people simply trust their children to them. The less time parents actually have to research Waldorf, the more likely they will be taken in by the Waldorf hype.
Busy executives believing they are getting a benign arts-based education for their children are, unfortunately, participating in something VERY different.
So, what EXACTLY is Waldorf education? And what have the Silicon Valley executives signed their kids up for? If their children are taking in Waldorf curriculum – “in through the heart, out through the mind” – what EXACTLY is
going IN?
Waldorf education is the missionary arm of Anthroposophy – a quasi-religious movement based on the clairvoyant visions of a single man – Rudolf Steiner. Rudolf Steiner was a mystic who lived around the turn of the century. He wrote what has been compiled into over 40 books and gave over 6000 lectures. His body of work is essentially what represents Waldorf teacher training. In other
words, the “special” training Waldorf teachers get that makes them “experts” in child development is nothing more than Rudolf Steiner’s clairvoyant musings.
So, it’s pretty important to know what Steiner had to say… not just in general, but specifically to Waldorf teachers. Here are a few gems that Steiner told Waldorf teachers directly… this is part of Waldorf teacher training
curriculum:
“The task of Anthroposophy is not simply to replace a false view of the world with a correct one…The task is to raise the spirit-soul into the realm of the spiritual, so that the human being is no longer a thinking and feeling
automaton…The human being is…in danger of drifting into the Ahrimanic world, in which case the spirit-soul will evaporate into the cosmos.” (FACULTY MEETINGS
WITH RUDOLF STEINER, p. 115.)
In fact, “Faculty Meetings with Rudolf Steiner” (goes by many names, “Conferences with Teachers”, should be required reading for parents (it’s required reading for teachers after all…) And, thanks to the internet,
parents can read it on-line here: http://www.waldorflibrary.org/pg/focusSearch/focusSearch.asp?keywordType=general\
&keywordValue=Faculty%20Meetings%20with%20Rudolf%20Steiner%20%20-Volume%201%20an\
d%202%20-%20Online%20eBook&showItem=1&ResourceID=685
Steiner says, among other things:
That “children are born with a human form, but are not really human beings…” and can be, in fact, DEMONS. (ibid pp649-650)
“With the students, we should at least try to…make it clear that, for instance, an island like Great Britain swims in the sea and is held fast by the forces of the stars. In actuality, such islands do not sit directly upon a foundation; they swim and are held fast from outside.” (ibid p607)
“It is not that the planets move around the Sun, but these three, Mercury, Venus, and the Earth, follow the Sun, and these three, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, precede it.” (ibid pp30-31)
“For the seventh, eighth, and ninth grade independent religious instruction we could move into a freer form and give a theoretical explanation about such things as life before birth and after death.” (ibid p184).
Again, this is all required reading for Waldorf teachers. Waldorf teachers are also required to read Steiner’s race theories. Steiner believed people incarnate into “higher” or “lower” races, that some races are “degenerate” and
that one race, the “white race, is the race of the future”. (Rudolf Steiner, “Farbe und Menschenrassen”, lecture in Dornach March 3, 1923, in Steiner, Vom
Leben des Menschen und der Erde, Dornach 1993, p. 67)
Steiner is Waldorf’s “guru” – and his ideas are indeed the basis of Waldorf education, training and curriculum. Unfortunately, his racist ideas come out in the curriculum – just like his other ides do. It is a fact that my son was
taught as part of physiology class at Highland Hall Waldorf school in Southern California, that “the blood of people in Europe is more `evolved’ than the blood of people from Asia and Africa”. When I questioned this lesson plan, several conferences ensued in which the school DEFENDED the lesson plan. So this wasn’t one wacky teacher teaching something silly – it is what Waldorf teachers are taught, AND it is what they teach.
When I enrolled my kids in Waldorf, nearly 20 years ago, it wasn’t very easy to get good information about what Waldorf is. Today, we have access to testimony after testimony of parents who have discovered for themselves the problems in Waldorf education.
Thanks you – to the Silicon Valley elitists who put their kids in Waldorf! Thanks to them, parents can now find this information out on their own, with very little effort. Unfortunately, it may require the use of the internet.
Pete Karaiskos
20 year Waldorf parent, critic, advocate
http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/
— Pete Karaiskos
Monday, January 2, 2012
Local Schools Network 3
Should the state be funding schools which were founded by a racist mystic?
My comments:
Highland Hall Waldorf School in Northridge CA taught my child in physiology class that the blood of the white race is more evolved than the blood of other races. When I questioned this, they replied that this was “out of Africa” theory. Several meetings and discussions ensued after which it became clear they weren’t about to back off their lesson… claiming “none of the children took anything racist away from the lesson”. Obviously, my own child was troubled enough to question his lesson. Waldorf does not believe it is a racist concept that a spirit-individual “advances” through the races until incarnation in the ultimate, white race. Most people, when confronted with that type of thinking would, indeed, recognize it as blatant racism. Anthroposophists believe they are above racism. They are NOT!
http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=4
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10
http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=4
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10 Dany Darling wrote: “There are many systems which were originally se-up by someone with dodgy/racist/sexist beliefs (the British Government for example), but unless those beliefs are currently held, you’re wasting your time trying to stir up offences that don’t exist.”
Please read my comment above – where racism was taught to my child. These offensive racist ideas DO exist and are right in the Waldorf curriculum… they were taught DIRECTLY to my child. This isn’t imaginary – it happened, the lesson was documented when it happened, and there are witnesses to and records of the subsequent meetings surrounding this “lesson”. Highland Hall taught RACISM AS SCIENTIFIC FACT. Not 100 years ago… NOW.
Yes, racist beliefs are CURRENTLY HELD by Waldorf – and they are taught to prospective Waldorf teachers – right in teacher training. In fact, you CAN’T be a Waldorf teacher if you don’t treat children with different physical characteristics – IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS. It’s what Waldorf teachers are TRAINED to do – TODAY! Please read up on Waldorf before assuming there is nothing to what people here are complaining about.
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Please read my comment above – where racism was taught to my child. These offensive racist ideas DO exist and are right in the Waldorf curriculum… they were taught DIRECTLY to my child. This isn’t imaginary – it happened, the lesson was documented when it happened, and there are witnesses to and records of the subsequent meetings surrounding this “lesson”. Highland Hall taught RACISM AS SCIENTIFIC FACT. Not 100 years ago… NOW.
Yes, racist beliefs are CURRENTLY HELD by Waldorf – and they are taught to prospective Waldorf teachers – right in teacher training. In fact, you CAN’T be a Waldorf teacher if you don’t treat children with different physical characteristics – IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS. It’s what Waldorf teachers are TRAINED to do – TODAY! Please read up on Waldorf before assuming there is nothing to what people here are complaining about.
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8 A sound education said:
About a black child:
“He has many, many white friends through being at a school that respects each individual for who she or he is.”
Um… ya think being in a predominately white school might have had something to do with it?
“Two families we know withdrew their children last year to send them to a school that is ten times as famous (and charges twice as much); both are bringing their children back after half a year away, because the education was simply better at the Steiner school.”
If the education was so good, why did they withdraw their children in the first place?
What typically happens is, parents realize how much they are caught up in the school. Their kid’s Waldorf friends abandon them in a short time, and so do their own Waldorf friends. Their social circle suddenly collapses.
And, unfortunately, their children cannot adapt to anything else… they are completely LOST in any other type of educational system.
In Steiner schools the younger children, especially, are NOT treated as individuals at all. Younger children have difficulties transferring to other schools. Besides being behind in academics (they ALWAYS are), those with learning disabilities are often discovering them for the first time. And, let’s face it… they tend to appear “odd” in non-Waldorf environments – often having had no exposure to media for example. Is it any wonder Waldorf kids don’t “fit” in other schools?
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About a black child:
“He has many, many white friends through being at a school that respects each individual for who she or he is.”
Um… ya think being in a predominately white school might have had something to do with it?
“Two families we know withdrew their children last year to send them to a school that is ten times as famous (and charges twice as much); both are bringing their children back after half a year away, because the education was simply better at the Steiner school.”
If the education was so good, why did they withdraw their children in the first place?
What typically happens is, parents realize how much they are caught up in the school. Their kid’s Waldorf friends abandon them in a short time, and so do their own Waldorf friends. Their social circle suddenly collapses.
And, unfortunately, their children cannot adapt to anything else… they are completely LOST in any other type of educational system.
In Steiner schools the younger children, especially, are NOT treated as individuals at all. Younger children have difficulties transferring to other schools. Besides being behind in academics (they ALWAYS are), those with learning disabilities are often discovering them for the first time. And, let’s face it… they tend to appear “odd” in non-Waldorf environments – often having had no exposure to media for example. Is it any wonder Waldorf kids don’t “fit” in other schools?
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7The bottom line is – and I find it repugnant that people can make these choices for their unsuspecting children… but… If you want a quasi-religious, or pseudo-scientific, or spiritually racist education for your child… Please don’t try to justify state funding for such nonsense… PAY FOR IT YOURSELF!
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7 @TheBee – Sune, you are never honest, and I’m pretty sure I’ve even caught you lying right here. BTW, please don’t threaten to punch me in the face as you did at Wikipedia. Before you suggest Waldorf people don’t threaten parents, remember that you made a public threat of personal bodily harm – to me (anyone can look this up… still..).
You said about shutting down criticism at Mumsnet.com “I did it as a private person, only representing myself and noone else, as always when I participate in discussions or write on the net.”
Now, we also have a letter from Mumsnet that you wrote. In it (see Cathy’s post above) it said: “If I see her posting promotion of libel at Mumsnet once more, I won’t tell you about it, but ask Percy Bratt of Bratt and Feinsilber in Sweden to contact you in cooperation with the legal representatives of The Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship in the UK and Ireland
(http://www.steinerwaldorf.org/index.html), about your negligent way of allowing libel to be published at Mumsnet and the one who is the
most fervent publisher of it to continue to publish at Mumsnet.”
Now, Sune, you specifically say your legal representation (P. Bratt) represents or works in cooperation with The Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship in the UK and Ireland. That is NOT the work of an individual… sorry.
So… it’s one or the other… Were you lying when you said your attorney represents the Waldorf Fellowship in the UK, or were you lying when you said you work as an individual when you threaten posters? Did you lie about not representing Waldorf then, or are you lying about having posted as an individual now? It really doesn’t matter which time you lied does it? Your credibility is GONE!
You said about shutting down criticism at Mumsnet.com “I did it as a private person, only representing myself and noone else, as always when I participate in discussions or write on the net.”
Now, we also have a letter from Mumsnet that you wrote. In it (see Cathy’s post above) it said: “If I see her posting promotion of libel at Mumsnet once more, I won’t tell you about it, but ask Percy Bratt of Bratt and Feinsilber in Sweden to contact you in cooperation with the legal representatives of The Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship in the UK and Ireland
(http://www.steinerwaldorf.org/index.html), about your negligent way of allowing libel to be published at Mumsnet and the one who is the
most fervent publisher of it to continue to publish at Mumsnet.”
Now, Sune, you specifically say your legal representation (P. Bratt) represents or works in cooperation with The Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship in the UK and Ireland. That is NOT the work of an individual… sorry.
So… it’s one or the other… Were you lying when you said your attorney represents the Waldorf Fellowship in the UK, or were you lying when you said you work as an individual when you threaten posters? Did you lie about not representing Waldorf then, or are you lying about having posted as an individual now? It really doesn’t matter which time you lied does it? Your credibility is GONE!
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10 Sune Nordwall wrote:
“Do Steiner waldorf schools encourage freedom of expression and individuality as Dany Darling writes?”
“That is also the expressed view of Jennifer Aniston, former Steiner Waldorf pupil, Julianna Margulies, actress, former Waldorf student and probably many other present and former Steiner Waldorf pupils.
OK, I challenge you Sune. Where have Jennifer Aniston and Julianna Margulies expressed this view? Can you point us to some publication, some television broadcast, a blog, some tweet perhaps… where Jennifer Aniston and Julianna Margulies have expressed this view? For you to say they have “expressed” this view, you must certainly be able to tell us where, right? I have spoken with Julianna’s sister, Alexandra, BTW, and she is indeed on record saying positive things about Waldorf (even the openly racist Highland Hall). But that’s not who we’re talking about. So where can we read the expressed views of Jennifer and Julianna? Thanks in advance.
“Do Steiner waldorf schools encourage freedom of expression and individuality as Dany Darling writes?”
“That is also the expressed view of Jennifer Aniston, former Steiner Waldorf pupil, Julianna Margulies, actress, former Waldorf student and probably many other present and former Steiner Waldorf pupils.
OK, I challenge you Sune. Where have Jennifer Aniston and Julianna Margulies expressed this view? Can you point us to some publication, some television broadcast, a blog, some tweet perhaps… where Jennifer Aniston and Julianna Margulies have expressed this view? For you to say they have “expressed” this view, you must certainly be able to tell us where, right? I have spoken with Julianna’s sister, Alexandra, BTW, and she is indeed on record saying positive things about Waldorf (even the openly racist Highland Hall). But that’s not who we’re talking about. So where can we read the expressed views of Jennifer and Julianna? Thanks in advance.
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4 BTW, I see quotes from both these people on your website… but you don’t indicate where you harvested these quotes. Maybe you didn’t invent them yourself… but since your credibility has diminished, I’d like to see the sources for these. Thanks!
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4
Local Schools Network 2
Steiner schools fail to get Free School Funding — for this year at least
My comment:
“They don’t teach mumbo jumbo and they are not secretive about Anthroposophy. They are not racist or sexist and they reject this aspect of Steiner’s views”
Wouldn’t it be better to say *as far as I know, they don’t teach mumbo jumbo…”? They ABSOLUTELY taught Steiner’s racist ideas to my child – and delivered the lesson plan as “physiology”. After multiple discussions with the school (Highland Hall – a 50 year-old established Waldorf school with teacher training facilities on site), they stood behind a RACIST lesson plan. There’s little reason to assume, since they’re a training facility, that they don’t teach Steiner’s racist ideas to teachers… but since they DID teach them to my child, there is NO reason to assume they don’t teach Steiner’s racism to children. Again, this isn’t a start-up Waldorf school with a wacky teacher… it’s an ESTABLISHED Waldorf school and teacher TRAINING center.
Waldorf schools are here to promote Steiner’s ideas. ALL OF THEM! Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or lying. It’s really THAT simple.
Wouldn’t it be better to say *as far as I know, they don’t teach mumbo jumbo…”? They ABSOLUTELY taught Steiner’s racist ideas to my child – and delivered the lesson plan as “physiology”. After multiple discussions with the school (Highland Hall – a 50 year-old established Waldorf school with teacher training facilities on site), they stood behind a RACIST lesson plan. There’s little reason to assume, since they’re a training facility, that they don’t teach Steiner’s racist ideas to teachers… but since they DID teach them to my child, there is NO reason to assume they don’t teach Steiner’s racism to children. Again, this isn’t a start-up Waldorf school with a wacky teacher… it’s an ESTABLISHED Waldorf school and teacher TRAINING center.
Waldorf schools are here to promote Steiner’s ideas. ALL OF THEM! Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or lying. It’s really THAT simple.
Local Schools Network
Steiner schools “repudiate” their founder’s racist beliefs to get state funding — but will it be enough?
http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2011/07/steiner-schools-repudiate-their-founders-racist-beliefs-to-get-state-funding-but-will-it-be-enough/
Some of my comments:
Sunday, January 1, 2012
Wikipedia Archives
Here are archives from Wikipedia discussion pages... there's some great behind-the-scenes reading here:
http://www.territorioscuola.com/wikipedia/en.wikipedia.php?title=Talk:Waldorf_education/Archive_1
1) The 'historian' that is most frequently referenced has no academic qualifications in history."
http://www.territorioscuola.com/wikipedia/en.wikipedia.php?title=Talk:Waldorf_education/Archive_1
Criticism
I am also removing the PLANS site link. This will be controversial in some quarters, so I am giving a full explanation of this here.- Diana writes: I am replying to some of Hgilbert's explanation for removing the PLANS link. (You have later noted that nobody ever replied to any of this.) I hope I am putting this in the right place as I haven't tried to make edits here before. I'm one of the people mentioned, without my name given, in this list of reasons PLANS supposedly should not be cited in the Waldorf article.
1) The 'historian' that is most frequently referenced has no academic qualifications in history."
- Obviously the 'historian' whose credibility Hgilbert is attempting to call into question with the use of quotes round the word is Peter Staudenmaier. Peter Staudenmaier is a PhD candidate in history and has indeed published academic papers, in academic journals, as well as a book (not self-published) on the subjects in question here, all fully citable. (I will provide a list of his published works a bit later, in case this point is actually in dispute.) The numerous references here that merely lead to Sune [...]’s multiple web sites ("The Bee," "Waldorf Answers," and "Americans for Waldorf Education" are all the work of [...]) would also have to go, if a site that has used Peter Staudenmaier's work has to go, since to my knowledge Sune has no “academic qualifications” in history, and citing propaganda or product-promotion web sites is not usually acceptable in academic papers, unless perhaps they are being cited as *examples* of such.
-
- Firstly: Is it not true that at the time of writing of writing these papers and book, and for a long period when P.S. was being cited as a historian on the PLANS site, and to this day, he had no academic qualifications as a historian? That he is now a candidate for such qualifications is to be praised.
- You are missing the point. This is a person who does indeed have published articles, in scholarly journals, as well as a book on the subject, and numerous articles in other media. His publications meet the standards for citing here. There is no doubt about this. I offered a list but I really don't have time, I'd rather get an updated CV from him but also don't really want to bother him, as I don't think he's too interested in Wikipedia. Anyone interested can google him and find, in about 30 seconds, that he is a published author on various topics related to anthroposophy. He is not, however, "PLANS' historian." I don't see where he's cited as a historian on the PLANS site anyway. This is completely irrelevant. You could pick any one individual with an article on the PLANS site, and say, this person doesn't have a graduate degree, so we can't ever refer to the PLANS site? I don't think so. The fact that you have your facts all wrong in the first place is simply a reflection of the fact that you are barking up the wrong tree trying to discredit this one individual anyway. You don't have a graduate degree either, do you? Hm. Where does such an argument lead us next? Your academic degrees? Mine? Where do we even get off writing encyclopedia entries?
-
- Actually, I do have a graduate degree. That's not the point, however; Wikipedia has criteria for sources to be used.
- Where is your graduate degree from, what university? In what subject? Where was your undergraduate degree from?DianaW 03:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not going into anthroposophists' activities in Nazi Germany. If you are the "enforcer" here of Wikipedian policies, it says clearly this page is not for discussing the issues in the article, but for discussing the *article*. The question was your bizarre assertion that because a certain individual who has articles on the PLANS web site doesn't have a PhD, the site could not be mentioned in the article! If this argument made any sense, why would you stop with Peter? Lots of us don't have PhDs. You could win that one much more easily than picking on Peter, but that is not the point, is it? The point is your sour grapes. (Hope I am indenting and signing things correctly now. There's more below.)DianaW 14:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
-
- Secondly: Peter was kind enough to send me the basis for claims he made on the PLANS site that a number of Nazis were friendly towards and supportive of anthroposophy/Waldorf education. One of those he mentioned was Rudolf Hess. The documents he sent spoke of Hess's staff, not Hess himself. I have since discovered that Hess was actually the person who signed the document forbidding anthroposophy in the Third Reich!!! If this was anthroposophy's friend in the Reich, what did its enemies do??? (Late edit; my apologies, I am wrong. Hess did lift a ban on anthroposophy in the Third Reich.)Hgilbert 15:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
-
- Peter also said that a Nazi named Bauemler "said good things about anthroposophy". Bauemler was in fact mentioned in the documents he sent -- with numerous criticisms of the education and a single point of interest - a way that, despite fundamental ideological differences, its pedagogical results in overcoming intellectualism could be useful to the Nazi goals. The documents show no friend of the schools, but someone interested in making use of them for his own ends. Nothing he sent supports his contention that Bauemler said anything good about anthroposophy.
- The above is about me. (It would help, of course, to use people's names, if you are going to write on other web sites trying to make it sound like they - I - am some disreputable character. The casual reader cannot possibly check what you are saying about me here, since you don't even name me.)
- What you write above about me is completely false. I have never once, anywhere, “accused the Waldorf school of not teaching [my] child reading.” My child attended 3 years of preschool and kindergarten at Waldorf, and I of course had no expectation he would learn to read in kindergarten. Hgilbert has not understood any of the many posts I have written on the critics list and elsewhere on the problems in reading instruction in Waldorf, if he thinks I have ever made a claim such as he attributes to me here.
- It is flatly false to frame this as if I “revealed” this information (the years my child attended the Waldorf school) only under “direct questioning.” This implies I somehow wish the dates or ages my child attended the school to be a secret. My child’s story in Waldorf has been told on the critics list in detail many times – and I sign my full name and explain who I am, what my association with Waldorf is, and why I write what I write. Many, many posts from me explain the timeline and details of my family’s experiences in Waldorf explicitly. I wrote my first posts on the critics list in late 1999. I don’t tell the whole story of my family’s Waldorf experiences, with dates and timelines, in every post, of course – so if you asked me, I told you. My criticism of the reading instruction in Waldorf is based on much more than my own child’s experience. It is based on numerous other children’s experiences, my own observations in the school (I worked in the Waldorf kindergarten for parts of 3 different school years), Steiner’s suggestions for teaching reading, and other published material on reading in Waldorf schools.
- It is clear to those who have observed in Waldorf classrooms that reading is discouraged among young children (this is not a point in dispute; I have listened to Waldorf teachers many times trade tips on *how* to discourage reading in young children), and I do believe this is harmful to these children’s later academic efforts.
- I have never withheld information about the dates and times of my son’s Waldorf years. I have certainly never suggested that I wanted the Waldorf school to teach him to read in kindergarten. I did not and I do not now call for Waldorf schools to teach kindergarteners to read. I do not believe reading should be taught explicitly in kindergarten, though I also don’t believe children who wish to read should be discouraged or shamed. Of course, if someone “directly questions” me, I will provide information on the dates we were in Waldorf and my son’s age at the time; but to imply that I am *otherwise* dishonest or withholding about this, and that getting the facts from me requires “direct questioning,” is not playing fair, Hgilbert.
- The above claims are also demonstrably false. Again, it is easy to make this sort of insinuation without naming names. "Lots of the contributors . . ." etc. It is false. I doubt that you could name more than one individual who posts in a regular or visible way there who either does not have custody or his or her children, or who has a dispute with a spouse or ex-spouse about Waldorf education. This is an argument by ad hominem - implying that the criticisms come from people who have had custody of their children removed! Frankly, knowing a number of them personally, the regular contributors there are an unusually happily and long-married group! - not that anyone's personal situation is relevant. It is simply incorrect that among Waldorf critics there is a high proportion of divorced parents or parents with disputes about Waldorf. This allegation cannot possibly be backed up by Hgilbert.
- The claims about the "extremely short periods" is also false. Among the regular contributors there, my own child's stay in Waldorf was one of the shorter ones: 3 years. (Ages 3-6 are formative years.) Many of the other regular contributors had children in Waldorf for 5 or 6 years.
-
- I am sorry if I misrepresented the group; a X. certainly does not have custody of his Waldorf child,
- Oh look! Now the name has been removed! It sure didn't say "X" a few hours ago!DianaW 03:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
-
- Yes, in response to your objection to names appearing here, the name has been removed. You cannot object to it appearing and object to it not appearing. This is a double bind, a tactic the PLANS discussions often use. Please avoid it here.Hgilbert 06:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Indeed I can object to it appearing and then object to it not appearing. Try to understand the issue rather than continuing to point fingers at others for your own very poor behavior - behavior very much contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia, and the hypocritical "good faith" reminders you keep sending to me. It is not whether someone's name is used or not used either in the article or in the discussions here. I'm all in favor of everyone using their real name. It is mud slinging that is objectionable - the posting of false (and irrelevant even if they were true) personal accusations - the attempt to discredit people based on personal situations or characteristics, rather than the substance of what they have said. Bringing in people's family situations is stooping quite low. You named names directly in response to my calling you on your false (and in itself disreputable) accusation that many critics do not have custody of their children. In other words, you stooped lower and lower. *At that point* removing the name is merely covering your tracks. You've had your cake and eaten it too.DianaW 15:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- You have no idea what you are talking about. None. The above is completely false, and you are on shaky ground talking about individuals' children here, and their marital situations! You could at least get your facts straight. It is completely untrue that X. does not have custody of his Waldorf child. This is really shocking. Can this possibly be okay with Wikipedia policies?
- I really think you should be more
-
- and I had been (falsely?) informed that others had not had custody of their children in Waldorf as well. I apologize if this is not the case (note that I would never include such hearsay in an article; this talk page is a good place to clear up such misunderstandings).
- Oh, please be serious. You are trying to "clear up misunderstandings" with this sort of thing? You are doing nothing of the sort, you should be ashamed. You are trying to slander and defame. You implied the critics are a bunch of people who have lost custody of their children! You stoop to *naming names* of individuals you think have lost custody of their children and it turns out not to even be true. There is NOT ONE PERSON there that I know of who has ever had custody of their children removed. There is ONE case of a person who disagrees with his ex-wife about Waldorf. You were never "misinformed" about this - you have chosen to believe nasty rumors behind the scenes. These are the tactics of a cult trying to discredit its critics. You have lowered yourself. Wikipedia should dismiss you. This is appalling.
- Perhaps you could mention the length of time that Dan Dugan's child(ren) and those of other principle contributors - Peter Staudenmaier, Peter Farrell, Steve Walden, etc. - have attended the school. Have the former two's children never went to a Waldorf school, for example? I have understood that Steve Walden's did. Has Dan Dugan had custody of his children throughout? How long were his children in Waldorf?
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- First of all, the critics list is an open list, for anyone interested in the topic. It is not only for people who have, or have had, children in Waldorf schools. There are a variety of other topics there - biodynamics, Camphill, anthroposophical medicine in addition to Waldorf. So naturally there are interested people who don't have a child in a Waldorf school but have encountered or become interested in anthroposophy in other ways. Walden's children were in Waldorf for (I don't recall exactly) but it is *many* years. Peter Farrell is interested in anthroposophy because he is a scientist, he is interested in the pseudoscience that comes out of anthroposophy. Peter S. we have already discussed; his interest is historical. He is probably (I can't speak for him but last I heard) writing a dissertation on Steiner.
- This is a case of trying to discredit *individuals* by reference to personal details, family history, marital status, "exactly how many years were you at the school" etc., and there cannot be any doubt this is completely unacceptable and inappropriate as a means to *improve the article on Waldorf education*. I am shocked. This sort of thing wholly discredits Wikipedia.
- Diana edits one more time to add: In fact although taking part in improving this article is obviously a lost cause, as you folks have it in a vise grip, under apparently round-the-clock surveillance, I am considering reporting this for defamation, as apparently Wikipedia does take accusations of defamation seriously. Discussions of whether contributors have custody of their children is not a legitimate academic inquiry. When I first read this this morning, I missed the part (because the text did not wrap properly) where you not only don't back off this claim, go on naming individuals whom you believe (erroneously) do not have custody of their children, but go on asking me even more specific questions about specific individuals, Does this person or that person have custody of his children. Are you serious!DianaW 16:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
The SF K Files
http://thesfkfiles.blogspot.com/2009/10/san-francisco-waldorf-school.html
My Comment:
My Comment:
- The glowing review by Claire makes it easy to see how people can be completely duped by people on a "mission". Waldorf is the missionary arm of Anthroposophy. Waldorf's job is to make Anthroposophists out of normal people - and, of course, children. Not everyone who puts their kid in Waldorf will "drink the Kool-aid" but in Waldorf's eyes - no harm... they still get tuition money - which will pay for an Anthroposophist's kids to attend for free. Some kids turn out fine, others are scarred for life. If both parents drink the Kool-aid, the kids might turn out OK. As a poster above mentioned, divorce rates are high at Waldorf schools because when one parent wises up, they are expelled from the community. Most kids suffer, IMO. In my personal experience with Waldorf, I have witnessed racism being taught directly to kids as "science". Children were taught that people in Europe are more "evolved" than people from Africa... as if this was a scientific FACT! Someone above brought up Dawkins. In evolution class, Dawkins was hardly mentioned - except to be questioned (Dawkins is a Darwinist). Instead, students were given assignments of writing "from a creationist's viewpoint". The "evolution" class was promoting Intelligent Design. Intelligent kids are FORCED to write about stupid stuff in Waldorf schools. That is shameful. Waldorf science is Steiner's science... religion, racism and all. Pete Karaiskos http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/
Whooping Cough Outbreak
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/el-sobrante-ca/TG2IB70R8FLVRAJ53#comments
My comment:
My comment:
Mar 17, 2010
Waldorf schools are cult-like environments (sorry Waldorf kids who are reading this) and the missionary arm of Anthroposophy (something like Scientology). Anthroposophists do not immunize children for religious reasons related to Rudolf Steiner's wacky ideas about karma (as Dan Dugan stated above). Parents who attend Waldorf schools who are not Anthroposophists are given different reasons for conforming (shown all the evidence for avoiding vaccinations).
Very intelligent people are sometimes caught up in cults. Some Waldorf parents even take their children to be infected by other children (yes, this is true - I have witnessed this - it's not just something on South Park). They want their children to experience childhood diseases. And when they do, they are treated with Anthroposophical medicines (more Steiner nonsense). Please be wary of schools that are called Waldorf.
The entire idea of Waldorf education, and what is taught there, is based on the strange theories of a single man... and he was nuts. I have had first-hand experience with Waldorf for over 18 years and I am documenting my experiences here:
http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/
Pete Karaiskos
Very intelligent people are sometimes caught up in cults. Some Waldorf parents even take their children to be infected by other children (yes, this is true - I have witnessed this - it's not just something on South Park). They want their children to experience childhood diseases. And when they do, they are treated with Anthroposophical medicines (more Steiner nonsense). Please be wary of schools that are called Waldorf.
The entire idea of Waldorf education, and what is taught there, is based on the strange theories of a single man... and he was nuts. I have had first-hand experience with Waldorf for over 18 years and I am documenting my experiences here:
http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/
Pete Karaiskos
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Highland Hall Waldorf School in Northridge, CA. explicitly TAUGHT my child that “The European race is more evolved than the African and Asian races”. http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/2011/02/racism-conference-emails.html They don’t deny teaching this lesson to my son’s class… they stand behind the lesson. After self-investigating, they claimed the lesson WAS NOT RACIST! http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/2011/04/hasib-disguises-racism-at-highland-hall.html
The fact that Anthroposophists/Waldorf teachers don’t believe it’s racist to promote that the white race is “more evolved” than other races does not alter or excuse the FACT that they TEACH RACISM TO CHILDREN AT WALDORF SCHOOLS. http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=4
Here’s AWSNA’s statement on racism and my comments regarding their misquoting of Steiner to make it appear he’s saying something he isn’t: http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/2011/05/awsna-comments-on-racism.html
Waldorf representatives should make some effort to determine EXACTLY what constitutes racism, then accept the FACT that they are racists if they follow the tenets of Anthroposophy. It’s that easy!
That’s an interesting one Sune. Where did you get it from? Oh that’s right, you INVENTED it. YOU have tried to disconnect Steiner from the “root races” of Theosophy a term Steiner used in the same way in Anthroposophy. Steiner made NO mention of Tertiary and Quaternary periods of time (despite they were defined during his time) – YOU made this “connection”. Just like AWSNA, you fiddle with Steiner to put words in his mouth that HE DIDN”T SAY! That’s just plain dishonest!
I was part of that arbitration process – so I can report that what you are saying is, AGAIN, untrue. NO ANTHROPOSOPHICAL SOURCES was the ruling… not “reliable published sources”. The whole point was to include ONLY reliable sources – and that excluded Anthroposophical sources (obviously). Unfortunately, nobody is left on Wikipedia who is willing to point out that MANY of the sources for the article you site ARE INDEED Anthroposophical sources (McDermott for example) pretending to be mainstream.
My question to you, Sune, is… are you going to post ANYTHING truthful here? If not, rest assured I’ll be back to point out the deceitfulness in what you are posting.
http://operationblackvote.wordpress.com/2010/09/08/independent-report-schools-still-failing-to-tackle-racism/
http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=6984
Do you think it only concerns Waldorf Schools here?
Pete Karaistos, I am not a representative of the Waldorf movement, but you know my suggestion for a sound definition of racism: the definition of Albert Memmi.
I’m not sure I understand your point. Because you find racism in English schools, you feel it’s OK to promote to schools that teach racism as science? Based on the racist ideas of their founder? Why?
Rather than champion against racism, you choose to take the “everybody’s doing it” approach. Why?
As justification, you produce a definition that “defines” racism in a way you think doesn’t apply to Steiner. I’ve read Memmi’s definition of racism… It sounds to me like he was defining “racial discrimination” – not “racism”. You don’t have to be an “accuser” to be a racist, nor does there have to be a “victim”. Many of Steiner’s views are still racist by Memmi’s definition BTW. What a Waldorf teacher taught to my child is racist by ANY definition – especially when put into the context of promoting Anthroposophy, which is indeed the intention of Waldorf.
Although I was critical about the report myself, I do think it is a very interesting report.
It confronts anthroposophical content with contemporary scientific and scholarly thinking (biological, historical, cultural, social). It gives clarification about certain concepts e.g. race, discrimination and racism. It is regrettable that not many critics have read the full version of this report. I even think that the main critics of the anthroposophy of the moment : Peter Staudenmaier and Helmut Zander have not read this full version, but instead read the summary in German. This is understandable because the report is not translated neither in English nor in German. I would say that the fact it hasn’t been translated is an omission. I think it is worth the investment.
I have a question for Francis Gilbert. After I send my latest comment on this blog I received the message “your comment is awaiting moderation”, this was not the case with my first comments. Is this normal?
Of course there isn’t… which makes the point the teacher was making SO much more evident. She didn’t use the word “race” at all. I’ll paraphrase what she said: “The blood of the people in Europe is more EVOLVED than the blood of people in Africa and Asia.” If this statement wasn’t in COMPLETE ACCORDANCE with Steiner’s racist teachings, there wouldn’t be a problem would there? It’s the fact that Steiner’s racism came out in physiology class that is EXTREMELY problematic for Waldorf schools. Again, this isn’t one wacky teacher saying something stupid… The school SUPPORTED the lesson. It doesn’t get more racist than this. Steiner’s racism IS taught to teachers in Waldorf teacher training – and it DOES come out in the classroom. That’s the BOTTOM LINE
I don’t think Steiner was a racist. I think that Steiner could have used another concept than race to describe what he wanted to. He would most likely had done this when he lived in our time. Certainly, also without the word “race” it is possible to have racism. But you cannot say Steiner had the intention to legitimate the causing of disadvantage by a supposed superior group to another supposed inferior group (cf. Memmi).
The things said to your child should not be taught in a Waldorf school nor in
any other school. I think there is more arousal , more consciousness , now for that issue in Waldorf schools. I think Waldorf schools in Britain have now the opportunity to present themselves as schools which are alert and perceptive for any form of racism and should also pay attention to prejudices and stereotypes being the first stages towards discrimination and racism.
Something else Pete, just for my curiosity: did you ever experience that one of the comments you send on this blog was “awaiting moderation”?
When he claimed black people didn’t belong in Europe for example? I don’t know if you consider it a disadvantage when someone declares an entire continent “off-limits” to you… but I think some people bight feel disadvantaged by such a statement.
“The things said to your child should not be taught in a Waldorf school nor in
any other school. I think there is more arousal , more consciousness , now for that issue in Waldorf schools.”
Really? My son was in high school… he’s only 22 now. I think you give Waldorf WAY too much credit for their “consciousness” when it comes to the nonsense they’re teaching children. Remember – they ALL AGREED with the lesson plan!
“I think Waldorf schools in Britain have now the opportunity to present themselves as schools which are alert and perceptive for any form of racism and should also pay attention to prejudices and stereotypes being the first stages towards discrimination and racism.”
How is that possible? They still teach RACIST ways of dealing with children to their teachers in Waldorf teacher training.
“Something else Pete, just for my curiosity: did you ever experience that one of the comments you send on this blog was “awaiting moderation”?”
I have experienced this several times on several blogs (not sure about this one). I know it happens to me on Zooey’s blog often. I find it happens most often if I link to a website or a picture. I think it’s more of an automatic system lag than some human intervention. Have all your comments been coming through OK?
(…) Ruhrbarone publish a short English summary of the BPjM’s decision on Rudolf Steiner. By Andreas Lichte.
The “Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien” (BPjM) (”Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons”) examined 2 books by Rudolf Steiner for “racist content” and decided that the content of the books is racist (…)”
read more: http://www.ruhrbarone.de/waldorf-schools-rudolf-steiner’s-books-are-“an-incitement-to-racial-hatred”-says-bpjm/